| Author |
Message |
    
Munch
Username: Munch
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Friday, August 10, 2007 - 6:21 pm: | |
Hi troops,
Old timers around here will know that I've always wanted a '70's Iceman. I guess it goes back to my memories of first seeing Kiss on TV in 1979.
In Australia these things are very hard to come by, especially the set neck models. I have been cautious of buying on Ebay from overseas so have been waiting for one to pop up here.
Fortunately one was listed this week in Sydney. I watched the auction for the whole week and was in touch with the seller a few times with questions. The auction closed last night and I was the only bidder! So she's mine... a C79 IC210 triple coil.
It is the rarest model too. According to Mark Hartman's site only 115 IC210s were made in total accross two production years. In '79 only 48 were made.
She's all original with OHSC and still has the little tool for the tuners. The story is that this guy's dad had the guitar from new, played it for a few years and then put it away. It seems the guitar was forgotten about for many years and only now re-discovered.
The guitar is quite dirty (years of gunk on the fingerboard) and features the "period correct" green corrosion of the pickup cover and mounting screws. That tortoise surround will be replaced immediately and the pickupcover will be off to the replaters. I hope the windings are OK. They should be as the polepieces do not look corroded.
All hardware appears to be original (except a missing chicken head knob) and the guitar exhibits a mix of 78 and 79 features.
All I can say is that I'm very excited to get the guitar and get stuck into the renovation.
Who else out there has one of these babies? Here are some photos from the seller:
Cheers,
Mark |
Peterdryan
Username: Peterdryan
Registered: 6-2007
| | Posted on Friday, August 10, 2007 - 6:38 pm: | |
Congratulations, Munch!
I can't wait to see her after she's all cleaned up.
That finish is going to *glow*. |
Sweep
Username: Sweep
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 10, 2007 - 9:21 pm: | |
Munch,
I saw that auction and am so glad it stayed in Oz, goodness knows there aren't that many good 70's/80's IBZ over here. And even better went to an ICW member!
I missed the end of the auction, did you get it for the one bid I saw on there last night? If so, I think that's a fairly good price considering rarity and above issues.
Cheers
Sweep |
Ibanezfreak1960
Username: Ibanezfreak1960
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, August 10, 2007 - 9:51 pm: | |
Nice score Munch! Goof luck with her.I know you will have her like new when you are finished. |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Friday, August 10, 2007 - 11:23 pm: | |
Nice, but with really nasty corrosion on those pickup screws. I think you'll have to say goodbye to the original screws.
You better spray them with WD40 first. I won't be easy to take them out.
Ginger |
Mr_roadstar
Username: Mr_roadstar
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, August 11, 2007 - 3:27 am: | |
Nice score, Munch. Sounds like Ginger is jealous...
The Bear |
Sixvsix
Username: Sixvsix
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, August 11, 2007 - 3:43 am: | |
Good score Mark. I saw it listed too.
Take no notice of Ginger.... he's a foreigner  
six |
Mr_roadstar
Username: Mr_roadstar
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, August 11, 2007 - 3:50 am: | |
ROFLMAO @ Six
Thanx, I need that !
The Bear |
Mr_roadstar
Username: Mr_roadstar
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, August 11, 2007 - 3:51 am: | |
"needed"
The Bear |
Munch
Username: Munch
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, August 11, 2007 - 10:47 am: | |
Hi Guys,
Thanks for all your interest and encouragement. an yes Ginger, I won't be keeping those rusty old screws!
Does anyone know what a triple coil sounds like? Any ideas on the wiring of the 4 way selector?
Cheers,
Mark |
Strings
Username: Strings
Registered: 1-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, August 11, 2007 - 11:14 am: | |
Dittos Munch...and all the way around! |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, August 11, 2007 - 4:57 pm: | |
Mark,
believe me: I feel no jealousy towards you or any other member. There are guitars I would love to hold in my hands that I can't afford or that are so rare that nobody wants to sell them. My first natural reaction is one of admiration. I watch, like I watch a Rembrandt or a Van Gogh. I don't envy the Rijksmuseum or the Kroeller Mueller.
And if a piece of art is damaged, my first natural reaction is looking how it can be fixed and what the pitfalls are.
Breaking these screws IN the wood, would mean a small disaster...
Talk it through with your dad before you start.
Good luck,
Waiting patiently for the "after" pics,
Ginger |
Munch
Username: Munch
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, August 11, 2007 - 5:40 pm: | |
Hey Ginger,
Its cool. Your post didn't sound like jealousy to me. You are quite right about the screws. Last thing I want to do is twist the rusty heads off. Some WD40 will definitely be used.
Honestly I reckon she's going to shine like a jewel when I'm finished and I don't think its going to take a lot of work.
I absolutely grilled the seller about any issues that may not have been mentioned or photographed, so I think all is good.
Cheers,
Mark |
Munch
Username: Munch
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 5:19 pm: | |
Ok guys,
Time to continue the story:
I received the guitar yesterday. It arrived safely not withstanding a few stuff ups and delays with the courier.
Upon opening the box, I was delighted. Yes the guitar was dirty, but under that I could see that the guitar was in very clean condition indeed. No bucklerash, no chips anywhere, no dents, no big scratches.
The neck had way too much relief and a very high action. The frets are in original factory condition and show zero wear. The half/half nut, tuners and trussrod all original and in perfect condition.
Of course the pickup and bridge show the "normal" corrosion associated with the outgassing of the pickup surround. All other hardware is present and accounted for.
So all in all, a top guitar with no big issues!!
Anyway, at home last night I performed my usual renovation. A thorough clean & polish, tighten all screws & nuts, polish frets, clean & oil fingerboard, new strings, set neck relief and action, set intonation and clean pots & switches.
After 3 hours of work you would almost swear that this baby came home with me brand new yesterday. It looks absolutely beautiful. The icing on the cake will be when I have the pickup cover replated. I may also track down a NOS bridge to complete the picture, although the existing one is not that bad.
Out of interest I put a multimeter on the output jack to get a bead on the 4 tone settings:
Pos 1: 4 K - single coil tone - no hum
Pos 2: 7.2 K - louder & fatter - no hum
Pos 3: 11.2 K - very loud & thick - no hum
Pos 4: 11.2 K - thin & wimpy - some hum audible
In a gigging situation I can see that you'd most often use Pos 2 & 3 for rhythm & lead duties. Pos 1 would be nice for clean arpeggios etc. I can't see any application for Pos 4 due to its much lower output. Maybe for a song where you want to simulate an acoustic.
Interestingly, all positions have a similar flavour as far as frequency response is concerned. You don't get as much tonal contrast as you would between the pickups on on a regular twin humbucker guitar.
So in summary I'm very happy and can't wait to try it out at my next rehearsal.
Pictures to follow in the next day or two.
Cheers,
Munch |
Spiro
Username: Spiro
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 7:34 pm: | |
congrats Munch
Still havent tracked down that wiring diagram but i can see the guitar is working as it should so time do draw it out yourself..
The iceman in store in adelaide I was told by the Ibanez Reps is in very clean condition and they want $700 for it.. Myabe a check out for yourself! |
Munch
Username: Munch
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 8:02 pm: | |
Hi spiro,
Is that the one Cameron mentioned at James Music? If so, I better get in there as it must be a different guitar than the one he's got $4,800 on!
If its not at James, can you let me know where it is?
Thanks,
Mark |
Spiro
Username: Spiro
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Monday, August 27, 2007 - 8:57 pm: | |
munch it is james music |
Munch
Username: Munch
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 12:33 am: | |
Thanks Spiro,
Your Ibanez reps must be smokin' something. I called in there today. He's got just the same one thats been there for about 20 years. Its a K77 IC210. Its far from mint, it has plenty of dings and scratches on it. It also has a Gibralter 1 tailpiece as opposed to the quickchange it should have. There are nuts missing from the bridge and the tortoise pickup surround has been replaced with a B/W/B piece. Pickup itself does not look kosher under the cover. The knobs are non-ibanez and the 4 position selector has lost its indicator ring and original chicken head knob.
There's no case and he wants $4,750. By comparision my guitar must be worth $9,000 easy!!!
Spiro, when you worked on one of these, was position 4 weak in comparison to the other positions?
Cheers,
Mark |
Munch
Username: Munch
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 6:09 am: | |
Ok Guys,
As promised here are some photos:
Cheers,
Mark |
Sweep
Username: Sweep
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 7:23 am: | |
Munch,
That looks fantastic, it's amazing what a bit of spit and polish can do.
It will look almost new when you get the pup cover and surround sorted.
Congratulations!
Sweep |
Bobzilla
Username: Bobzilla
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 7:30 am: | |
Nice Munch! Looking goooooooooooooooood. Congrats. How does it sound? Is it what you imagined? |
Ibanezfreak1960
Username: Ibanezfreak1960
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 8:42 am: | |
Nice Munch! I knew it would look good when you were done. |
Craigjc
Username: Craigjc
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 1:49 pm: | |
I love Munch's photography skills. Beautiful pics. |
Munch
Username: Munch
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 8:50 pm: | |
Hey Guys,
Thanks for the kind words. I'm very happy with how it has cleaned up. The next step in the process will be to make a new surround, replace the screws and re-plate the pickup cover.
Regarding its sound, I haven't had a chance to really compare it to other guitars yet. I also need to adjust the pickup height since lowering the action has placed the strings too close to the pickup. I am a little wary of making this adjustment prior to having some replacement screws handy. The current ones are very rusty and I don't want to break them.
I haven't yet been able to remove the pickup and surround as two of the surround screws are so rusted that a screwdriver can't seat into the slots. The slots have essentially disappeared. I think I'll need to get a dremel and try to make some new slots in the screw heads.
Once I can get the pickup off, then I'll be in a better position to mess with the height adjustment screws.
Craig, I had zero skills and knowledge about photography until recently. The pics I used to take we as bad as the ones at the top of this thread! However, Johns posted a link to a bass guitar website (Bunnybass)that had a photography tutorial about guitars. It is really simple once you know how to set up a guitar and lighting to get better images.
These photos were taken at night time in a bedroom with no flash. The only props used were some black fabric, a rubber door stop, a floor standing 150 watt halogen lamp and a 40 watt desk lamp.
Cheers,
Mark |
Sixvsix
Username: Sixvsix
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 28, 2007 - 11:45 pm: | |
Terrific job Munch. And thanks for the photo tips!
six |
Chipsotoole
Username: Chipsotoole
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 12:16 am: | |
Nice score congrats....amazing what a few hours of TLC can achieve. Tell us how it performs on your first gig with it.... |
Munch
Username: Munch
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 4:27 am: | |
Hey Chips,
You wouldn't happen to be a Michael Caine fan would you?? |
Spiro
Username: Spiro
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 5:35 pm: | |
Hey Munch!
to get the screws loose you need to lube them up a bit.. White spirits is the way to go cause it doesnt stain anythingsoak the area in white spirits and then slowly turn them out.. If you break one of the heads off you are going to have a lot of work ahead of you.. When I have repaired items like that I usually cut the surround off.. Measure and trace it as best you can before you do this.. You will need to make a new surround up anyways.. Si I suggest you get rid of that surround and leave the screws behind... Then remove the screws...
Hope this helps |
Spiro
Username: Spiro
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 5:41 pm: | |
Just an add on.. Whatever you do dont use wd40!! it will get into the screw holes and stain the wood underneath... |
Spiro
Username: Spiro
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 5:44 pm: | |
one more tip!!!
The pickup cover from memory is actually part of the whole pickup housing... So when you take the pickup cover off the whole pickup falls to pieces.. From you pics above I can see that a little more machine polishing will get the pickup cover looking like new again... The one I repaired was alot worse... |
Chipsotoole
Username: Chipsotoole
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 29, 2007 - 11:33 pm: | |
Munch...I've been rumbled....first time too!..good for you!!! |
Munch
Username: Munch
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2007 - 5:37 am: | |
Hi everybody,
Time for another update. On the weekend my dad came over with his dremel and we cleaned up the slots in the pickup surround screws and height adjustment screws. As a result I was able to remove the pickup and get some WD40 onto the height adjustment screws.
Fortunately all screws co-operated and nothing broke!
I took the guitar to my gig on the weekend and used it for one set. Soundwise, I can't say that I was all that impressed with the triple coil pickup. Positions 1 and 2 were lower output and thinner sounding than the Telecaster I also had at the gig. Maybe some further amp tweaking would remedy this situation. However, position 3 was great. This was fat and saturated. I can see that it would really find a home driving a Marshall or something similar into fat raunchy '70's rock tone. I didn't try position 4 as its very low output would have been a problem.
I haven't made a final judgement on the sound of the guitar yet, but initial impressions are not outstanding. I guess I'll need to spend more time getting to know it better, and hopefully find its sweet spot. Perhaps if we bring some AC/DC into the set.........
Cheers,
Mark |
Sixvsix
Username: Sixvsix
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2007 - 10:57 am: | |
How about something more useable like a decent humbucker. That would mean making a new surround without hacking up the old one. Should wire up to the switch ok for some interesting tones
Or just one Tele pick up in a made up surround.
Just some ideas
six |
Skybone
Username: Skybone
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2007 - 1:58 pm: | |
Wow, that's cleaned up really well. Very nice looking guitar! |
Munch
Username: Munch
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2007 - 8:35 pm: | |
Hey Six,
Good ideas there. I was thinking along the lines of a normal humbucker and a single coil pickup mounted next to each other under a replica triple coil cover. You could use the 4 way switch to selct single coil only/both pickups/humbucker only with a spare position for a coil tap or phase reversal option.
This might improve the tone and vesatility of the instrument and keep a stock appearance.
Cheers,
Mark |
Munch
Username: Munch
Registered: 2-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, September 20, 2007 - 3:47 am: | |
Ok people - its update time again:
I took the guitar to a local pickup guru, Mick Brierley. His pickups are outstanding!!
I asked him to look it over and make some recommendations for me. His recommendation was to leave it untouched. In his mind, the guitar was in such great original condition it would be a shame to even break a solder joint! He said that all the wiring is completely original with untouched solder joints. Messing with it may reduce its potential value in years to come.
He said I should take it home and mess about more with pickup height and polepiece adjustments. and you know what? He was right!!
After a hour or two of trying different configurations, I've improved the sound significantly. It may not sound like Billy Gibbons' Pearly, but its now far more satisfying that it was. It certainly works great with distortion and overdrive, and I guess thats probably what Ibanez were aiming at with a triple coil anyway!!
So in the final analysis, its not going to give clean tone from the gods, but in a rock context, I think it now aquits itself nicely!
PS: What a stand up guy Mick Brierley proved to be. Fancy a custom pickup maker advising me to not buy his pickups!! If any of you are intersted, I tried his versions of PAFs, P'90s and Tele pickups. They are all better than anything I've heard from any maker so far.
Drop me a PM if you want his email address.
Cheers,
Mark |