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Username: Ccs

Registered: 03-2001
Posted on Saturday, September 24, 2005 - 10:16 pm:   

Has anyone seen or have a early ES-175 with a metal logo?
I picked up a 175 that matches some of the early models I've seen here with the tail piece with the wooden crest,used before the correct one appeared around '73.This one has no logo or label but does have two small holes on the headstock where a logo was tacked on at one time.
What I find odd is the hole spacing is 1 13/16 apart where my 2020 is 1 1/4 apart.The 2020 is a Fender style head with a very small badge.Did the Gibson heads have a bigger badge?
If not,what other brands had their logos tacked or screwed on?
The bridge,pups(DiMarzio AL DiMeola's) and tuners have all been replaced so no help there.
Username: Ccs

Registered: 03-2001
Posted on Saturday, September 24, 2005 - 10:18 pm:   

Username: Harry

Registered: 03-2001
Posted on Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 5:42 am:   

Hi Chris my belief: I doubt if it is an Ibanez, because of some details:

1. The 3-way switch is on the treble horn. I've only seen this once in the old 1971/1972 catalogue, but only on the 2355M version, never on the sunburst one. In fact: apart from this one catalogue picture I never even saw a 2355M with the 3-way switch on the treble horn at all.

2. The headstock always had a crown inlay, but I don't see that on your guitar.

3. The tailpiece is different from the "zig-zag" tailpiece that was used from the beginning on (early 70's). These tailpieces with the wooden crest were used on Al Caiola copies and the Barney Kessel copy.

The three points above could be the reason to believe that this guitar is some kind of proto-type, some pre-production example and that this is the reason why your guitar differs from what we know or what is to be concidered standard on these 2355 models. However:

4. Maybe the most important detail: your guitar has a "zero"-fret, something I never saw on an Ibanez 2355. My theory: if Hoshino used a zero-fret in this early stage (if we're talking about a late '60s/early '70s guitar), why would they have abandoned this later on in the 70's?

As you said: the spacing of the studs for the metal logo is different from what you know. Now my pal Hasy is more the expert on the 60's period and he did some research on the metal logo, so maybe he wants to jump in here to tell you if your thinking could be right about the measurement difference.

I'm pretty convinced that it is Japanese, early to mid '70s, but I wouldn't bet my head if it's Hoshino made. As we all know many various factories made copies in those days and the individual factories often produced more than one brand name. I recently saw an Aria ES 175 copy that might as well have had the Ibanez logo....I couldn't tell the difference!

Okay Hasy, if you read this, please give your opinion!

Kind greetz,
Username: Ccs

Registered: 03-2001
Posted on Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 8:32 am:   

Thanks Harry,
I forgot to mention also that the heel on this is more of a square and others I've seen are more round,like my 2616.
There was a early 175 that does matches this model though,it was model 1860:
Username: Ccs

Registered: 03-2001
Posted on Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 9:04 am:   

And there was this one also,but a very rare bird.I believe Cameron said there was only around 100 of these with the G cleff on the head made,1972/73.
So between this and the 1860 the zero fret,Kessel type tail piece and treble horn toggle was used early on but why they stopped is a whole other question.
The logo spacing and square heel on mine are the reason for my doubts as well.
I would like to figure who the builder was so I'm hoping I can match the spacing with another logo.Any ideas?
Username: Harry

Registered: 03-2001
Posted on Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 10:58 am:   

Hi Chris

Hoorray...found some other things I didn't know yet! I see that both Ibanez guitars have also a zero-fret. Strange that lateron this was abandoned...
The model 1860 is somewhat new for me, too...
Username: Ccs

Registered: 03-2001
Posted on Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 11:53 am:   

It's exciting yet aggrivating isn't it?
Just when you think you may have something figured out you find something that changes it.But that's what makes it interesting!
Username: Harry

Registered: 03-2001
Posted on Sunday, September 25, 2005 - 11:58 am:   


Yeah, that's why I'm always facinated in digging through Ibanez' history. Just when you think you know the standards and what the rules are, you keep discovering exeptions to the rule. Guess there is only one conclusion left: in those days it didn't matter what parts, what configuration, as long as the final result was a guitar that could be sold.
Username: Hasy

Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2005 - 2:58 pm:   

Hi there :-)




Here is a 60`s Ibanez Model 1850 with METAL LOGO, Zero Fret and in good shape.

Confusion ??????

Chris, please send me the pictures of the 1860 Model to my mailadress. Check your Mailbox, i send you infos.

Greets Hasy
Username: Tricky

Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 5:49 pm:   

The 1860 Ccs's post above is mine. All pictures can be seen here:
Username: Goat

Registered: 10-2006
Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 1:10 pm:   

Tail definately looks right on exactly like my Al Caiola model... down to the diamond and everything, very interesting!
Username: Ccs

Registered: 03-2001
Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 9:59 pm:   

Did we ever get together on this one?I was without a PC for an extended period this past year due to crashing issues which may be why I can't remember sending you any pics.Then again,maybe I did and just don't remember

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