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Jabney
Username: Jabney

Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, July 03, 2006 - 12:05 pm:   

hello, I'm looking for information regarding an Ibanez with an L76 etc. serial number prior to putting it on eBay. I'll try and upload some pictures:

front

headstock

pickups

serial number

Hope this works.

Thanks for looking.

best,

john
Lespaul
Username: Lespaul

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Monday, July 03, 2006 - 1:06 pm:   

Looks like an original(except for the missing pickguard)tobacco brown sunburst model 2351.

Hope this helps.

Paul
Jabney
Username: Jabney

Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, July 03, 2006 - 5:07 pm:   

Thanks for the reply lespaul. I didn't include a picture of the back of the headstock, but the tuners have a script 'S' on them and above each is a neatly filled-in hole that strongly suggests the tuners were replaced.
tuners

Any suggestion for setting a 'buy-it-now' price or a reserve?

Thanks,

john
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Monday, July 03, 2006 - 5:33 pm:   

Jabney,

The script 'S' stands for Schaller, one of the best hardware manufacturers of the world. They're known for their German "Gründlichkeit". The hardware parts you find on a Gibson, even with the Gibson logo (tune-o-matic bridges, tailpieces) are often made by Schaller. Their tuners are really excellent and quite expensive too. They're definitely better than the cheap originals.
On a "player" they are first choice.

Ginger Ale
Jchester
Username: Jchester

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Monday, July 03, 2006 - 7:28 pm:   

Ginger,
While I agree with you on the quality of Schaller hardware & that, "On a "player" they are first choice".

But I think this fella is trying to extract max $$$ from collectors, who will turn up their noses over non-original hardware... even if it's the best available... especially with the holes left behind, no matter how well they're repaired.

There are others here who can better assess its value & I'll defer to them for that.

John Chester
Jabney
Username: Jabney

Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Monday, July 03, 2006 - 10:29 pm:   

Thanks for the responses. I'd like to get something for the 2351. But I'd rather know it was going to be played than displayed. I'm a non-playing lyricist and I got the the guitar from Outlaw Guitar (when they were next to the tatoo parlor on NJ Rte 22) with the idea that it might be useful for recording my co-writes. However my co-writer's dad found a really nice Sekova 'sg-type' which fills that tonal slot (and the last remaining guitar-holder slot in co-writer's living room). And since a non-performing lyricist is at the very bottom of the music industry food chain, I need the money more than the luxury of having a guitar that isn't being played that much. Wish I could keep it, though.

best,

john
Johns
Username: Johns

Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Tuesday, July 04, 2006 - 12:57 am:   

Hey Jabney:

I was up to Outlaw a couple of times before they closed up. Seemed like they had a pretty brisk business. Do you happen to know if they opened up somewhere else?
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Tuesday, July 04, 2006 - 5:51 am:   

John Chester,

Collectors often have an enormous parts bin with original tuners. If they are real musicians as well, they keep the parts bin originals in the case and play with the Schallers installed.
I see no reason for a substantial price reduction.
If the new owner would sell the second hand Schallers he'd get a good price for it, but if he's musician and a bit smarter he'll keep them. New Schaller tuners are quite expensive.
A few weeks ago, a guy at a musical instruments fair offered me his total parts bin for 25.= but I didn't bite... yet. The very last minute he added a set of gold Schallers (which he had offered before for 25.=. It was on a very hot day and we were under a terrace roof. There hadn't been many buyers. I bought the whole bunch for the price of the gold Schallers. He was happy but so was I. Look 'm up on Stewmac!
They're $89.57 at Stewmac, and I can tell you that they are even more expensive in the European shops! (Online 99.45 at www.Musikerladen.de

Jabney,
The chromes on your guitar are 63.95 new in Germany (online).
If a collector starts low balling, because of these tuners, don't accept it!
Never sell a good guitar if you don't have to!
Listen to the text of Chet Atkins' "My Gibson girl".
("You were hiding in the closet, when my wife walked out on me")

Guys,
What are good original tuners actually worth in your opinion? It can't be that much.
They were open worm wheel tuners with a chrome cover over it!

Greetz,

Ginger Ale
Jabney
Username: Jabney

Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Tuesday, July 04, 2006 - 7:56 pm:   

hello Johns,

I drove past Outlaw Guitar after a trip to Greenbrook Electronics (long may they live and prosper) and the tatoo parlor had taken over the area where Outlaw had been. I vaguely recall doing a google search and seeing a 'thanks for all your business over the years' message. There may have been something about a move closer to the city and under a different name, but I won't swear to it.

Hello Ginger Ale,

Thanks for the info on the Schaller tuners. That is good to know. As for selling the 2351, I bought it with the idea of having it available to a guitarist to play on songs I had co-written, and to have it available for studio use when I thought the place I'm living now would make a good studio. My recording focus has shifted to remote recording. And I've come to realize that most guitarists don't warm to guitars that they don't own.

If I sell the 2351, that will still leave me with a Hohner Prinze with Joe Barden pickups, and an Epiphone Sheraton II. While the Prinze may be useful to my (somewhat - ahem - younger) co-writer, some of the songs as performed with the new band have taken on a harder edge than I anticipated based on co-writer's solo work. Co-writer's dad is very proud of having scored an awesome deal on the Sekova 'sg-style' and - now that it has new tuners I like its sound a lot too (never thought I'd say that about an sg-style guitar). What can I say, I guess deep down I'm a rocker. (At least as much as a non-performing lyricist can actually be a rocker :-) Oh well, enough of that - time to go listen to a 'new' (to me) Cindy Walker song: "Dusty Skies." As long as I don't reflect too much on the fact that Ms. Walker (who died this year in her 80's) wrote the song when she was 12 years old, I'll be fine :-)

best,

john
Jchester
Username: Jchester

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Tuesday, July 04, 2006 - 8:35 pm:   

Jabney,
If you can find a player, who can appreciate the upgrades, the guitar will have a Good Home & may become a creative force, beyond anything we've ever seen & I'll be forever stoked.
JC

...however

Ginger,
As a player who's been there, I understand COMPLETELY what you're saying... but for collectors, it's all about the HOLES that "upgraded" tuners leave behind. I've installed Grovers &/or Schallers on several guitars, and was much happier after I did, while I was playing it, but...

When I sold/traded them, I got the "hairy eyeball" over the holes that "non-original" stuff left behind, no matter how well the holes were filled.

And let's face it, Ibanez "Star" tuners don't exactly suck.

Bridges & taipieces (other than Bigsbys) are no big deal, (easily restored) but patched up holes aren't exactly the collectors' draw.

While, I agree, they may play better, More holes = Less $$$
JC

btw... the "Stars" on my new/old 2451nt are STAYIN' where they are!!!
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 7:00 am:   

JC,

I agree that Ibanez star tuners don't suck.
But this guitar had other original tuners: open worm wheel tuners with a separate chrome parallellogram dome cover.
You can see this because of the diagonally placed screw holes.
The screws of the star tuners are placed in one vertical line, like on the pictures of the 2672 of the ICW Guitar Tours.
http://www.ibanezcollectors.com/GuitarTours/2672/2672-1.html
On my 2355M (blond flame maple ES-175) I still have these original older and cheaper tuners. Luckily they're still 100%. It's the same as Sixvsix 2355M but 100% original (including pickguard and OHSC). And believe me, I have no plans of replacing one part.

But on Jabney's guitar we find a totally different situation. The holes are already there, but so are the Schallers.
I think, in this case it was a real upgrade, done because it was necessary.
Reinstalling the original type of tuners with chrome parallellogram dome covers might perhaps cover the holes of the Schallers. Then there's no harm done.

It would be a purely cosmetic operation. The Schallers are definitely better.

Bad tuners can spoil an otherwise perfect guitar.
I think the former owner had no other choice than to replace them.
I'll try to find a picture of the older cheaper original tuners and post it later on.

Greetz,

Ginger Ale
Lespaul
Username: Lespaul

Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, July 05, 2006 - 7:27 am:   

Ginger,

Check here for threads about star tuners. There are several types with different mounting screw positions.

Paul

BTW: you are right about the cheapo tuners (few different models of them also.....) that should be on this 2351. It never had stars on it.

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