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Emilio
Username: Emilio

Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Wednesday, September 13, 2006 - 5:35 pm:   

http://www.qksrv.net/click-1802666-10381315?loc=http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll%3FViewItem%26item%3D300027341884

A-MA-ZING
cheers
emilio
Snowjays
Username: Snowjays

Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Wednesday, September 13, 2006 - 6:06 pm:   

I don't know what it says, but it's has Greco fittings with an Ibanez logo.
I'm amazed the Ricky purists haven't found it yet.
Johns
Username: Johns

Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Wednesday, September 13, 2006 - 6:10 pm:   

A collector's dream!

Guys and girls, get a look at it while you can. Ricky usually gets every auction that has their name attached to it pulled from ebay.
Jchester
Username: Jchester

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Wednesday, September 13, 2006 - 7:00 pm:   

Wow... nice piece. Never seen pix that good, of that model. Ibanez really nailed the checkerboard binding.

Maybe Germany is below their radar?

But what's up with the tailpiece? Looks like the Gucci logo, where the "R" would be on the original.
Jchester
Username: Jchester

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Wednesday, September 13, 2006 - 7:02 pm:   

Sorry 'jays... now I get it... Greco not Gucci.
Johns
Username: Johns

Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Wednesday, September 13, 2006 - 7:40 pm:   

Check out the model 2388 in the 1975 catalog:
http://www.break-even.org/ibzscans/1975FB/75-5.jpg

and the 1976 catalog:
http://www.break-even.org/ibzscans/1976FB/76faltblatt-3.jpg

looks good to me!
Jchester
Username: Jchester

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 14, 2006 - 12:03 am:   

Yup... those crappy catalog pix were all I'd ever seen before. Standard for the time though. I'm amazed that they ever sold anything, after making them look so bad in their catalogs.

The E-Bay pix really show the instruments' quality (other than the cheesy tuners) that the catalogs didn't.

But the catalog shots don't have the same "G" tailpiece... curious.
Johns
Username: Johns

Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Thursday, September 14, 2006 - 8:36 am:   

Jchester:

I totally agree about the early catalogs being the worst selling tool. And there's no mention of any specs.

You don't see the "G" tailpiece on the 6-string 2388? I see it in both the '75 and '76 catalog shots.
Jchester
Username: Jchester

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 14, 2006 - 9:02 am:   

OK... I see it now, duh. I bet it makes a great bottle-opener.

Just looked at the E-Bay pix again. That thing looks brand new. She's a true "closet queen".
Emilio
Username: Emilio

Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Thursday, September 14, 2006 - 9:29 am:   

I bet Harry & Hasy are going to be all over it...
She looks good
cheers
emilio
Bobzilla
Username: Bobzilla

Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Thursday, September 14, 2006 - 11:56 am:   

John, why do their auctions get pulled? And... man that's a neat geeeeeeetar. (I had to do a double-take.)At the risk of incurring the wrath of certain members, how much should it fetch? How often do you even see one of these? First for me.
Bobzilla
Username: Bobzilla

Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Thursday, September 14, 2006 - 11:58 am:   

John... OK I see why they pull it. Nevermind. I'd get that sellers e-mail quick then.
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 14, 2006 - 5:11 pm:   

Bob,

It's not in Russelw's database.
But then there's always Argus
http://www.guitareelectrique.com/argus_iba.html
Don't know if that reasonable. But at least it's something.

IMO pulling vintage replicas from Ebay is not in the interest of Rickenbacker.
If it were a more recent imitation, that would be a totally different case.
Rickenbacker would be very stupid to deny the manufacturer of this 1975 replica it's place in guitar history.
Such an agressive act would ruin the mutual respect between guitar collectors and Rickenbacker.
This add is positive free publicity, not distortion of competition.

Vintage collectors are no prospects for Rickenbacker, but their collections are appetizers for young guitarists.

I bet they'll do nothing this time.

Ginger
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 14, 2006 - 5:16 pm:   

They did nothing about this one
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180026544342
And it's almost over.
Skybone
Username: Skybone

Registered: 03-2001
Posted on Thursday, September 14, 2006 - 5:48 pm:   

I love the 480/481 Ric's (long term 4001 fan), serious GAS!!!
Johns
Username: Johns

Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Thursday, September 14, 2006 - 6:28 pm:   

Ginger:

That auction probably slipped by because they were careful not to use any of the keywords that the company searches for. The company usually picks up on anything with Ric, Ricky or Rickenbacker in the title or description. Probably some other derivatives, too.

There are other big names that do the same.
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 14, 2006 - 7:36 pm:   

Yes, I noticed they left out these keywords and only referred to the artist who played the original.
But I'm pretty shure they picked the 480 up already but wisely decided not to interfere.
Or they don't understand the German description:

It says: "As far as the looks and finishing are concerned probably NO RICKENBACKER from that era could compete with this IBANEZ."

But then again, the company doesn't sell old ones. It's an invitation to go to the dealer and try the real McCoy. They need this kind of free publicity. Their distribution network in Holland is not so well. I have a catalogue collection that goes back to 1987 (and one 1983 German Fender catalogue) and there's NOT ONE Rickenbacker catalogue in it. I really wouldn't know where to buy them here. I know a few German dealers who have a few Rics in their mail order catalogue but they're really small here in Europe.

I still think an agressive approach of 30 year old vintage replica's is contraproductive.

Ginger
Bassassin
Username: Bassassin

Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 14, 2006 - 8:05 pm:   

If Rickenbacker see this, or get wind of it, they'll have Ebay pull it. I believe it's to do with their design patents & registrations. It seems the existence of vintage copies threatens the validity of their copyrights - because the copies were made before Rickenbacker registered the designs.

This means they're actually more of a concern to the company than modern copies - they can challenge the manufacture & sale of these through legitimate legal channels, which they can't with vintage copies. Ebay will remove such auctions for fear of Rickenbacker hitting them with a lawsuit for facilitating the sale of counterfeit goods.

I've actually had a dialogue with Rickenbacker CEO John Hall about this, and he is completely (and I suppose understandably) unbending in his stance. In case anyone's interested, there's a very long (and not particularly polite) thread on a bassists' forum I use which details how this came about, and the events leading up to my realisation of why it's the case:

http://www.bassworld.co.uk/pn/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=14501

Jon.
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 14, 2006 - 9:30 pm:   

If Rickenbacker registered the designs too late, they have legally no foot to stand on.

Denying the existance of these early copies is useless.

If the copy was made before the date of registration of the design, it is legally not a counterfeit, and Ebay has nothing to fear.

If the verdict is spoken by real judges (like the European Court) instead of a lay persons jury (I believe they still have this lynching system in the US and the UK) they could go to trial without a lawyer and win. And Rickenbacker knows they can. The US courts have no jurisdiction in these cases, since these guitars are offered by Ebay Germany.
If you kill your dog here by putting it in the microwave, you get zilch, besides a penalty for animal abuse.
And stupid companies who forgot to apply patents on their inventions and designs also get zilch. Every imitation before the registration CAN'T be a violation.
It's like the Taliban accusing buddhists who lived thousands of years before Mohammed, of insulting their prophet. It's historically and legally IMPOSSIBLE!

We have a TRIAS POLITICA here, not a court that is an instrument of protectionism or theocrats, and Rickenbacker knows that.


Ginger
Jeffsailor
Username: Jeffsailor

Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 7:32 pm:   

http://www.gbase.com/Stores/Gear/GearDetails.aspx?Item=1544154
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 9:44 pm:   

Nice blondy, but I think the lawsuit story is only used to get a higher price.
http://www.guitarattack.com/destroyer/lawsuit.htm
Rickenbacker was NOT involved in 1977.
The only thing you can say is, that it's the "lawsuit era" it was made in. The fact that a product is taken off the market, doesn't automatically implicate that it is because of a lawsuit. In marketing you have problem children, rising stars, cash cows, and dogs.

If a product is not a rising star or a cash cow, it is one of the other two.
- Problem children mostly need some time to grow over their teething troubles and become rising stars.
- Dogs are products that nobody wants anymore because times change (like orange with brown kitchenware and furniture), and are kicked out.

Ibanez started to develop their own more advanced designs and kicked the old imitations out, because they had already proved they could build guitars and it was time to move on.

In the early eighties I found the blue Rickenbacker of the bass player of the most popular band in high school a terribly ugly instrument. Through the glasses of the eighties it was too angular and tasteless compared to Fender Jazzbasses and Precision basses and Ibanez Roadstar II basses.

The glasses of a collector 30 years later are coloured differently.
And sometimes sellers try to add some pink.

Ginger
Ibanezfreak1960
Username: Ibanezfreak1960

Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Friday, September 15, 2006 - 10:20 pm:   

Maybe he meant it was taken off of the ebay market.
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Saturday, September 16, 2006 - 5:23 am:   

Let's assume that's what the seller meant...
So, they put it on G-base. What's the difference? Doesn't G-base get intimitated? Or do they just not bend for it?

I thought the seller meant to suggest it was taken out of production due to a "lawsuit". He tries to get $700.= for it. That's a lot of money, just for a Rickenbacker appearance. I think the red one isn't going to bring in that much. From the beginning there were two bidders competing by adding ONE euro each time. And I see two new bidders are doing the same now. If these four make each other crazy, unexpected things can happen.

Personally I think it will stay under the Argus list price (480 or $609.60)

Ginger
Ibanezfreak1960
Username: Ibanezfreak1960

Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Saturday, September 16, 2006 - 8:22 am:   

If the gbase copy is a neck through I think its a fair price. In the end its how much a buyer is willing to pay according to how bad he wants the item.

I don't know if G-base gets patroled by the Rick police or not.

And yes like you already said Ginger the seller is using the "lawsuit" term out of context. Yes it is from that era but no its not a "lawsuit" guitar!
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Saturday, September 16, 2006 - 9:53 am:   

Oh, could it be a neck through body construction. Well, that's something different. That shurely is worth the extra $80.=
But the red one's a bolt on neck.

I easily step in the pitfall of reading $$ as . And then it looks even more expensive as it already is.

But I love neck throughs.

BTW did you notice, the tailpiece is totally different? They made no effort to immitate the R tailpiece at all, but went for a heavy quality that is almost like an ATK bridge prototype. Would it be possible to use the string through body concept as well on this one? Does it have bushings on the back?
Looks interesting from a technical point of view.
Ibanezfreak1960
Username: Ibanezfreak1960

Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Saturday, September 16, 2006 - 10:03 am:   

I saw the bridge but it resembles the same iis copying here are some pic to compare
my picture
my picture
Ibanezfreak1960
Username: Ibanezfreak1960

Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Saturday, September 16, 2006 - 10:08 am:   

not quite the same but different from the R bridge!
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Saturday, September 16, 2006 - 1:57 pm:   

I looked up some pictures of the 4001. The hardware on the picture looks the same.

But there's someting odd to it.
Is that a fake body?
The horn are not angular.
It has no binding.

The neck has dot inlays instead of shark teeth.

Looks like a home grown tomato to me.
Who owns it?

Ginger
Ibanezfreak1960
Username: Ibanezfreak1960

Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Saturday, September 16, 2006 - 3:47 pm:   

The guitar I posted is the Paul McCartney edition. It was red when Rick gave it to him and after he had painted it during the Beatles he hand sanded the frinish completly off and in the process reshaped it. Rickenbackr did a limited edtion replica of his bass and there it is.
Ibanezfreak1960
Username: Ibanezfreak1960

Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Saturday, September 16, 2006 - 4:29 pm:   

Here is a little info about Pauls bass.

http://www.voxshowroom.com/northcoast/rickenbacker/4001c64s/index.html

http://www.voxshowroom.com/northcoast/rickenbacker/4001c64/index.html
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Saturday, September 16, 2006 - 5:51 pm:   

If we mortals would treat our instruments like that, all value would be gone.
But, what can I say?
Paul is Paul...
Untouchable, unequaled, and a blond-addict...

rich man...
poor guy...

you always can...
give it another try...

So forget about your ex
and climb up the attic...

to fetch your axe...
you silly blond-addict...

and play...



Ginger

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