| Author |
Message |
Chris Chalk (Chalky)
| | Posted on Monday, June 25, 2001 - 4:28 am: | |
hello All,
heres a tricky one for you. Found an interesting guitar today that i think(??) is and Ibanez 2350. It's got a bolt neck, "Custom" on truss rod cover, gold harware, five piece headstock inlay, gold top-hat knobs with silver caps, looks like original pick guard and aftermarket pick-ups.
The interesting things are: there is no logo on the headstock but there are two holes where it appears that it may have had a name plate screwed on. Also, from checking the photos on various webpages it appears that the 2350 doesn't have a logo on it at all, very strange.The metal neck plate has no serial number but does have "Made in Japan" stamped on it, the plating is very worn so I'm assuming it's original. The cover plate for the electronics is triangular like my 2386. The funniest thing is that it has a "Gibraltar" bridge on it like later '70's models.
It poses a lot of questions. I'm fairly sure it's an early seventies Ibanez but I'm not sure. It's in mint nick, has a great neck and plays awesome so for $175AUD i cant lose but I'm wondering what it is???? Any opinions??? |
PS10 (Spiro)
| | Posted on Monday, June 25, 2001 - 7:34 pm: | |
Chris,
In my travels I have found very similar guitars with the holes for nameplates....
I have seen a Custom Agent with the same thing going on with the headstock.....
I have also seen guitars identical to Ibanez with Jason nameplate on the headstock.... |
Ccs (Ccs)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 12:05 am: | |
Does anyone know when the transition from blank headstock and truss cover to split diamond and "custom" cover took place?Also the stop tail from bolt through to open hook?I have a blank bolt through with a rounded neck end coming,making it I believe '70-73,but I think i've seen early rounded necks with the diamond inlay and squared necks without.The "custom" covers seem to show up more later and I have 2 pre-serial V's with the hook tails that I think are '74's so the bolt throughs were gone at least by then.I'm hoping some info on these items can help pinpoint build dates a little closer on this and other pre-serials.
Chris |
Harry (Harry)
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 16, 2002 - 4:11 am: | |
Hi Chris!
I think you're as close to the truth as you can get: The research Hasy and I did on the topic "how can you date a pre-serial Ibanez more exactly" evolved to the conclusion that the switch from bolt-through tailpiece to "hooked in" must have taken place in 1972. After all: the 1973 catalogue shows us the new style tail and you may assume that (in order to get the catalogue ready in time) these guitars were pictured somewhere in 1972. But that does not go for all models. The bolt-through tailpieces were used on double neck models until 1978.
The switch of the headstock features and the rounded/square fretboard ends is more difficult to trace and seems to depend on what model you have. It seems that on some models this change took place earlier than on others. By the way: the same difficulties shows up when you try to trace when exactly the crown-inlay on the SG standard headstock was introduced.
Probably Ibanez used old and new features at the same time: so you might as well find headstocks with split diamond inlay but with a blank trussrod cover. Or like you discovered: split diamond/rounded fretboard end or no split diamond/square fretboard end. That's always the problem (but at the same time the fun..)with Ibanez in those days: just when you think you discovered some kind of system a guitar poppes up that shatters your theories. Some other examples?
Could you imagine my suprised reaction when I first saw my Les Paul 2393 (with the maple fretboard) that had the old "open book" headstock shape combined with the serial number D762761. That's April 1976. It should have the new "Guild"-style shape by then, shouldn't it?
Or how about this one: Ibanez and Norlin concluded a gentlemen's agreement in februari 1978. Ibanez promised to stop making copies if Norlin would stop bugging Ibanez. How come I own a 100% Les Paul copy (set neck, solid top) with a serial number starting with I78? September 1978! Some "gentlemen".....
Greetz,
Harry |
Ccs (Ccs)
| | Posted on Sunday, November 03, 2002 - 10:53 pm: | |
Thanks Harry,
Every little bit helps.The tailpiece info is very good to know.I hope to have it in the collection by Thurs.My first Les Paul and my fifth pre serial Ibanez.
Chris |
Ccs (Ccs)
| | Posted on Friday, November 08, 2002 - 12:17 am: | |
Got it,very pleased.A few questions though.The hardware is gold but the pickup covers are chrome.The neck has the Maxon script on the back but the bridge has no markings at all so I take it that one was changed and the Maxon is original.I did a keyword search but didn't get a conclusive anwser:were some early models shiped with chrome covers and gold hardware or do you think they were both changed?
Is the fancier binding on the neck just on the Les Pauls?My SG neck is the same neck except the white binding just runs down the side,the paul has white/black/white on the edges of the face of the board.
And when did they finaly get a good groove going with the neck pockets.Both this and my SG are rather poor in that area,yet my metal logo 2020 is as tight as can be as are my 2387's.
Thanks,...Chris |
Harry (Harry)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 3:37 am: | |
Hi Chris!
Funny; I had the same experience like you with an ES 345 copy: it had gold hardware, but chrome pickups. Both pickups were of the "Maxon" brand and the guy who sold it to me claimed to have never changed anything about the guitar. I placed a question about this matter on this discussion board and got reactions from others that they also had seen this strange combination of gold hardware and chrome pickups on old Ibanez guitars. So I guess your guitar could be "stock" in that matter.
Greetz,
Harry |
Ccs (Ccs)
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 10:13 pm: | |
Harry,
I saw that when I did the search.It's funny that the pickup rings have gold screws but the covers and adj. screws are chrome.What gets me is that as soon as I plugged her in the secret was out,single coil under humbucker covers.Could that push the date back a little more?I seem to remember someone,maybe Spiro,mentioning fake humbuckers but I can't find it.Is there a time frame before actual hums were produced and used?I wasn't too happy about it but I have some old 70's Dimarzio's and the bridge pup from a 2387 V that I can put in.I'm not into modifications but I bought this to use and the singles just won't do plus I can always put them back in if I sell.And last,the bridge has the markings "H T F BRIDGE" on the back,thats one I haven't seen yet.Any meaning?
Thanks,....Chris |
Harry (Harry)
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 3:44 am: | |
Chris!
Yep, I know the story of the fake hums. I bought a Morris SG copy back in 1977 and I wondered why the damn thing just would not sound right. Until I found out that there was only one coil in the (humbucker)casings. These pups were Maxon, too. I believe that this was done purely to save costs. Besides: the main goal for Japanese guitarcompanies in those days was to make correct copies from an optical point of view rather than correctly constructed copies. Good example: your own Les Paul: bolt-on neck, arched plywood top with hollow areas underneath. Good optics, poor construction.
You are right to exchange the pups, when you want this guitar to be a player: those Maxon single-coil fake humbuckers really suck!
Presuming the two holes in your head (I mean the guitar, of course) are indicating that a metal Ibanez-logo once was there, combined with the fake humbuckers might date your guitar even in the late 60's, my guess would be between 1968 and 1970.
I don't know what the markings H T F Bridge means.
Greetz,
Harry |
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