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Ariblues (Ariblues)
Posted on Monday, April 12, 2004 - 12:14 pm:   

I have a Kasuga Deluxe (Les Paul Gold top and dark Back). Is this guitar considered to be an “Ibanez” or is it a “Tokai”. Some say that it is Tokai, some say that it is Ibanez.
The guitar has golden hardware, There is no serial number, Pickups are Maxon brand and under the bridge it says H.T.F BRIDGE. Can somebody help me with this?
Tim_Gueguen (Tim_Gueguen)
Posted on Sunday, April 18, 2004 - 3:14 pm:   

Taking a quick look via Google it appears that Kasuga manufactured some of the Tokai branded guitars in the '70s, but Tokai themselves had a factory. So its fairer to say that some Tokais are actually Kasugas.
Orval (Orval)
Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 1:01 pm:   

if its an ibanez, then it says it on the headstock. otherwise it's not, even though it might
have been made in the same factory.
are buicks that are made in the gm plant chevrolets?
Dave_G (Dave_G)
Posted on Monday, April 19, 2004 - 7:34 pm:   

Nice analogy Orval !
Ariblues (Ariblues)
Posted on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 3:12 am:   

I was waiting intelligent answers about the connection between Kasuga-Ibanez or Kasuga-Tokai.English is not my mother language, (I’m from Scandinavia) so It is difficult for me to write “The right way”.

As you masterminds maybe know some cars are imported with different names to different countries and the only difference is the logo, so is it totally different car in that case with nothing to do with the brand that You know in your country? I was trying to find out if is this the case with Kasuga?

Is there somebody out there with some information without being too smart to answer in a nice way?
Ariblues (Ariblues)
Posted on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 3:23 am:   

Thank You Tim for your nice ansewer :-)
Orval (Orval)
Posted on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 9:45 am:   

part of my answer was due to frustration with spending countless hours chasing leads on ibanez guitars, only to find that it is a guitar similar to an ibanez. even some ebay listings use ibanez in the title block and then do not show or list the headstock label. in my mind, thats a mild form of fraud used to try to elevate the status of no-names. lets face it, the ibanez brand has name appeal and the other guitars are what they are---but not an ibanez.

ariblues--i am sorry if i offended you. english is the worlds most precise language, i think you are doing a pretty good job of it, just be careful the with razor sharp tongue.
Mr_Roadstar (Mr_Roadstar)
Posted on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 12:24 pm:   

I've posted this before, but I see it needs to be repeated.

Ibanez does not build guitars. Ibanez is a brand name owned by Hoshino.

Hoshino has Ibanez branded guitars built under contract by various factories. Other companies use the same factories as Hoshino and somtimes have very similar specs. These are NOT Ibanez guitars with different names.

To clarify Orval's statement, Ibanez guitars have "Ibanez" printed on them.

Ariblues (Ariblues)
Posted on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 4:01 pm:   

The thing that I'm after here is that as player, not a collector, if I want find a guitar with the same quality than Ibanez had in their guitars at the 70’s, but if I don’t want pay to “Mr Hoshino” his share from the Ibanez logo. So what is the guitar that I should I go after?
Naturally a best buy would be an Ibanez with an other name, but since there are not such a things never ever made (as I have been told here strongly) I am wasting my time. Or am I?

I have been playing 22 years with a Ibanez 2355M -78 and I want the same quality. Is the only way to pay about the Ibanez logo?
Johns (Johns)
Posted on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 4:14 pm:   


The closest "cousin" to the Ibanez guitars, that Hoshino takes credit for, would be the Greco line. These were nearly identical, but not absolutely the same, as the Ibanez line. They were sold in the Japanese market.

The 2355M is one of my dream guitars. The prices on these have taken off over the last 2-3 years. I'm sure that you have compared the price of your 2355M to a real ES175. Even though Ibanezes may be more expensive than other Japanese replicas, they are still very affordable compared to the originals.
Fox (Fox)
Posted on Tuesday, April 20, 2004 - 4:46 pm:   

Hi Ari!
Seems we have some kind of "language-related misunderstanding" here..well I sure hope nothing serious.. If you speak Finnish you can contact me using address foxposti@jippii.fi.. Anyway, to "shine some light" on related trademarks under the Hoshino Group, here are the facts:
Isonez, Kasuga, Luxor, Halifax, Cimar, Maya, Morris, Global, Sekova, Polaris for European Market

Antoria (CSI) England Distributor

Greco for Japanese Market
MANN for Canadian Market
Jason for the Australian Market
Penco, Elger, Univox for the US Market

Hope this will help you (as well as all the fellow Ibanezers)...
Paul_A (Paul_A)
Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 11:28 am:   

We know that there was no Ibanez factory in the sense that there is a Gibson or Martin factory and that Ibanez sourced a number of Japanese manufacturers who also supplied similar (sometimes virtually identical) guitars for other brands.This still leaves unanswered just who commisioned and designed the guitars in the first place. Leaving aside straight copies, who would have been responsible for instigating the design of the Iceman or Custom Agent - both of which appeared simultaneously with the Ibanez versions with other brandnames on their headstocks?
Mr_Roadstar (Mr_Roadstar)
Posted on Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 5:51 pm:   

You'd probably have to check patent information to determine the originator of a particular design. That's assuming anyone bothered to patent it. As for Iceman clones, are there other branded versions of the 2663 Artist?

If you are looking to compare similar designs from a quality standpoint, I think the costpoint they were built to meet has more bearing than anything else.

Ariblues (Ariblues)
Posted on Friday, April 23, 2004 - 8:20 am:   

Well now we got in to business here, great. Well like always in life you have to fight for your place, same rules here. I got some support by private mails, thanks guys.
And now back to the guitars…

Are these brand names owned by Hoshino Co.Japan like Ibanez?

Isonez, Kasuga, Luxor, Halifax, Cimar, Maya, Morris, Global, Sekova, Polaris

If not, for who do they belong to?
Were the Arbiter guitars ordered by the English company straight from Japanese factory or were they ordered thru Hoshino Co.?

I have an Arbiter Custom acoustic -76-77 and you can play it any day next to a Ibanez acoustic from the seventies without a shame. Same guitar?

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