Is this MIJ?

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Author Message   Rickd Username: Rickd Registered: 4-2006 Posted on Sunday, September 02, 2007 - 7:52 pm:    is this MIJ? thought on 180 and 200 were? Ebay Item #250161044837   Johns Username: Johns Registered: 2-2001 Posted on Monday, September 03, 2007 - 8:32 am:    Rick: That was my understanding, too. I would have guessed the Korean Cort factory. Knowing the serial number would clear up origin and year of manufacture. The AS120 with that body and headstock shape debuted in 1997 and ended in 2002.   Rickd Username: Rickd Registered: 4-2006 Posted on Monday, September 03, 2007 - 9:37 am:    I emailed him and asked if he was sure this was a MIJ Ibanez and for a pic of the back of the headstock and this is what I got. "Yes the Ibanez Sticker on the inside confirms it's > Japan. That's the reason I bought it..." >   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Monday, September 03, 2007 - 3:38 pm:    Johns, you're absolutely right. I have the same guitar. I would like to see a picture of that label and the serial number. The starting bid is very reasonable for a Korean one. Remember they were $899.- new, WITHOUT the case. For Europe you can replace the dollars by euros (1997-2002). I've seen AS120 guitars sold for 600 euros on www.marktplaats.nl (ex semi-famous band member). The appreciation of the Korean ones is higher here than in the USA, I guess. I'm keeping mine (added a bound tortoise pickguard and the black one's in the case). Ginger   Rickd Username: Rickd Registered: 4-2006 Posted on Monday, September 03, 2007 - 5:31 pm:    this guy insists that it's made in japan he says there's a sticker and everything i'm trying to tell him it's not it's nice though--especially for the money thinking about bidding anyway did these have super 58s in them?   Johns Username: Johns Registered: 2-2001 Posted on Monday, September 03, 2007 - 5:34 pm:    Rick: Well, I'd love to see that sticker because it would be an exception to the "rule". Did you ever get the serial number?   Rickd Username: Rickd Registered: 4-2006 Posted on Monday, September 03, 2007 - 7:00 pm:    john: he hasn't emailed me back yet; but due to his feedback and nice manner, i don't think he's lying i'm wondering if someone sold it to him as a MIJ, which is clearly doesn't appear to be not saying they didn't make a few, but it's strange there's no serial # on the back of the headstock   Rickd Username: Rickd Registered: 4-2006 Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2007 - 7:18 am:    if anyone is interested in the pic of the sticker, i'll post it if you can tell me how---it does read Japan, but i think it's a Chinese serial number if it's even real here it is: Z1202114690   Rickd Username: Rickd Registered: 4-2006 Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2007 - 9:20 am:    actually, he has added the pic of the sticker to the ebay link experts, please chime in on the validity of the pic thanks, rickd   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2007 - 2:49 pm:    11 characters, never seen before. starting with Z means Yeou Chern Factory, according to the Captain's "How to read an Ibanez serial number" thread. Now, that thread also gave the impression that World Factory would be Chinese, which it is NOT, it's KOREAN. So, let's first find out if Yeou Chern Factory is indeed Chinese or not. THEN 10 digits is a LOT. I don't see how to read them. Is it: Z 120 2 11 4690 ??? If so: what does the Z mean? Does 120 mean AS120? Does 2 mean 2002? Does 11 mean November? Is 4690 the production number? I think we need Jim Donahue for this one... I don't know about this Ibanez logo. It looks a bit weird on a thinline. This is the typography that one would expect on an acoustic. At least I would. http://www.t3-kundenserver.de/htmlpages/redasys/_c ore/databases/t_meinl-uploads/2002-acoustic.pdf The logo on the electric catalogue of 2002 looks like this: http://www.t3-kundenserver.de/htmlpages/redasys/_c ore/databases/t_meinl-uploads/2002-el-kat.pdf In the year 2000 Ibanez also used the spaghetti logo for acoustics and the Bold Serif for the electrics. So my suspicion - and I am suspicious - is that this label is a manipulated blank or a copy from an acoustic label, like the "JSM90 BASIC" fake label. Ginger   Rickd Username: Rickd Registered: 4-2006 Posted on Tuesday, September 04, 2007 - 2:54 pm:    thanks, ginger--as i suspected a fake label still a nice guitar for the price i've been emailing around for a Fujigen semi--think i'm going to hold out for one of those they won't sell out of japan but i think ishibashi might sell me one   Aroee Username: Aroee Registered: 10-2004 Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 9:26 pm:    Looks like it has an ebony fretboard... Were any of the Korean ones made with an ebony fretboard??   Rickd Username: Rickd Registered: 4-2006 Posted on Wednesday, September 05, 2007 - 9:42 pm:    aroee, i emailed him about that and he assured me it's a rw fretboard   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Thursday, September 06, 2007 - 3:42 am:    Of course, ebony is really high end material. The AS120 was not meant as a high end guitar, but as the budget version of the AS200 (without the trisound and without the expensive Japanese working hours, and without the most expensive materials like Gibraltar II and Quik Change II and the expensive ebony, BUT WITH the beautiful inlays and gold plating on the hardware and perloid machine head knobs. The result was a guitar that could be offered at 50% of the price of the AS200. IF you would leave out the Korean labour and replace it by Japanese labour, you're pricing yourself out of the market. So, either you choose to cut back on materials and make a simple DOT in Japan (the AS100 without trisound or later the AS180 with trisound), or you outsource the production to Korea and make it at least a few hundreds more affordable than the AS180. Building AS120 guitars in Japan makes no sense at all. It was on the lists for $899.- while the AS180 was $1399.- How would they have been able to realise this with the gold and the inlays? NOT! The label must be a fake. Ginger   Rickd Username: Rickd Registered: 4-2006 Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 8:50 pm:    man, that fretboard sure is dark for rosewood looks like ebony to me, but could be the light   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Friday, September 07, 2007 - 9:50 pm:    There are so many variations of rosewood, also very dark ones. The density of ebony however is much higher. Ginger   Rickd Username: Rickd Registered: 4-2006 Posted on Saturday, September 08, 2007 - 10:01 am:    well i think we can all agree that sticker is a fake and this guitar most certainly is NOT made in Japan still, though, for the cash, not a bad deal   Jjhuntfox Username: Jjhuntfox Registered: 9-2007 Posted on Saturday, September 08, 2007 - 11:36 am:    This is what the label should look like, from my AS120:   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Saturday, September 08, 2007 - 12:45 pm:    Hey, May 2003, production number 40. And THIS label looks genuine, Jjhuntfox. So, 2002 was NOT the last production year. Always nice to know. We could ask ourselves, for what reason would somebody remove the original label and serial number, and replace it with an acoustics label copy with the word JAPAN on it, with a Chinese serial number, and then sell it for the same price as EVERY OTHER AS120? I think the first seller or this seller had a very good reason! (If the reason is NOT value increase, then it must be something else). It's hard to say who did the counterfeiting, but based on the knowledge we have, who would want that guitar? If you ask me, I would NOT burn my fingers on it. Ginger   Rickd Username: Rickd Registered: 4-2006 Posted on Sunday, September 09, 2007 - 9:38 am:    Ginger, there's not way I'd buy that thing now--knowing what we know. But it appears as if someone has bid on it.   Chucke99 Username: Chucke99 Registered: 2-2007 Posted on Sunday, September 09, 2007 - 10:45 am:    I guess the bidder figures, heck, I'd pay $399 for a new AS73, and over $400 for a used AS83 on eBay. Why not take a shot at an AS120, even with a fake label. I seriously considered that option, but then decided to pass. -Chuck   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Sunday, September 09, 2007 - 4:00 pm:    That's what I meant. This guitar is "hot" in two ways, if you ask me. Ginger   Jazzzbo Username: Jazzzbo Registered: 9-2005 Posted on Sunday, September 09, 2007 - 4:43 pm:    Seems like a high price, over $600. am i correct?? jazzz   Chucke99 Username: Chucke99 Registered: 2-2007 Posted on Sunday, September 09, 2007 - 5:25 pm:    Well, hopefully it is what the seller says it is in terms of condition, even if the label is counterfeit. In that case, the buyer got a good deal. $610 isn't that bad, IMO. -Chuck   Rickd Username: Rickd Registered: 4-2006 Posted on Sunday, September 09, 2007 - 10:23 pm:    i emailed the buyer and offered him a link to our thread since the experts have chimed in   Jazzzbo Username: Jazzzbo Registered: 9-2005 Posted on Sunday, September 09, 2007 - 11:57 pm:    just saw an ar 300 go for $550, i know its a different beast but... for a counterfit korean guitar at over $600???? jazzz   Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Monday, September 10, 2007 - 12:53 am:    The buyer had e-mailed me before the end of the auction. I informed him about my suspicion and that this guitar is most likely a good instrument. I think $610 dollars is a price that the AS120 really deserves. But I find it ridiculous that it takes a fake "Japan" label in the USA to get the price at that level. The past half year, they sold two in Holland for EUR 600, while USA sellers had difficulty to get them over the $500.- threshold. Of course they were not all sunbursts (there were several whites and cherry reds on eBay), and not all made by Cort, but still... the appreciation of Korean AS models among USA collectors (who often never owned or even tried one) seems to be less than in Europe. The buyer mailed me from a European e-mail account BTW, maybe he's staying in the USA for his work or study. With the present exchange rate, he still has a bargain. EUR448.- (case included). I say it's probably a 1997 Korean Artstar AS120 (it's basically the same as mine, but I installed a bound tortoise pickguard). They replaced the original black pickup surrounds by creamy white ones (probably to make it optically unrecognisable for the original owner and to give it a more AS200 look), and put in a fake label, so that nobody can track it down and claim it's his (or hers). The buyer is considering it to be a player, and I'm sure he's really going to love this guitar. Ginger

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