GB & McCoy Tyner - What Guitar?

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Author Message Wildfield Username: Wildfield Registered: 05-2005 Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 10:41 am:    Here's a link to a youtube video of George playing 'Round Midnight with McCoy Tyner. Besides the phenominal playing, I was trying to recognize the guitar he was using. It looks like a Johnny Smith but the peghead does not look like a Gibson. Does this look like an Ibanez to anyone? http://youtube.com/watch?v=D8MlIjhZ_q8&search=George%20Benson Johns Username: Johns Registered: 02-2001 Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 11:20 am:    Yes, it's an Ibanez model 2461. Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 12:52 pm:    Absolutely right, John. A 2461 NT to be precise. Most are brown sunburst or violin burst or whatever they call it. A NATURAL is absolutely top of the bill! If you look at the price difference between a Gibson L-5CES sunburst and L-5CES natural, you'll see it's enormous. Greetz, Ginger Ale Jazzzbo Username: Jazzzbo Registered: 09-2005 Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 3:21 pm:    WOW, 2 ibanez johnny smiths on ebay right now, both sunburst, this should be interesting to see what they actually sell for, jazzz Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 6:01 pm:    Thanks Jazzz, I see only one Ibanez on ebay.com But it's featured twice in order to optimize the selling success. Its serial number is I765610. And it's an open book headstock. So what we have here is proof that in August of 1976 there were still guitars leaving the factory with an open book (Gibson) headstock, though they had started advertising with the new tulip shaped (Guild) headstock in May 1976, as you can see on Smooth's 2355 website: http://members.lycos.nl/ibanez2355site/lawsuit.htm Here it is the link to the Johnny Smith ad: http://cgi.ebay.com/76-Ibanez-2461-Johnny-Smith-Archtop-Hollowbody-LAWSUIT_W0QQi temZ140007065696QQihZ004QQcategoryZ33043QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem LOOK AT THE HEADSTOCK SHAPE AND THE SERIAL NUMBER! Beautiful proof of my hypothesis a few weeks ago! They didn't throw away or cut up the good necks that were laying around! They finished what they had started! One star tuner was replaced (mentioned by the seller) and I believe I see a length crack in the back of the headstock (NOT MENTIONED by the seller). It is not in the same condition as yours, Jazzz, but also beautiful. Greetz, Ginger Ale Wildfield Username: Wildfield Registered: 05-2005 Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 8:00 pm:    Here's a link to the other one. http://cgi.ebay.com/Ibanez-2461Johnny-Smith-archtop-jazz-guitar-stunning_W0QQite mZ120002308062QQihZ002QQcategoryZ2384QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem Looks like it may have some problems and the seller has zero feedback. Jazzzbo Username: Jazzzbo Registered: 09-2005 Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 8:05 pm:    actually my guitar is a 1973 es 175 ibanez copy, im thinking of trading or purchasing the ibanez johnny smith, but i believe i would have to hear, see it in person, cheers Johns Username: Johns Registered: 02-2001 Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 9:02 pm:    Here's an ICW-friendly link to the sunburst Johnny Smith. Please use it to place bids, if possible: http://www.qksrv.net/click-1802666-10381315?loc=http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll%3FViewItem%26item%3D120002308062 Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 8:24 am:    Looks like a cigarette burn. How the hell can you loose the middle of your tailpiece? Perhaps it was personally ingraved by a former owner, like Jazzerman's guitar he bought from the Dutch soldering champion and jazz guitarist Jan van Beveren. In Holland we're proud if a guitar bears his name. He's the best tube tech in the country. Ask papers: old receipt with serial number. BUYER: Pick the guitar up in person and let the seller make a receipt for you with the type and serial number and the price you pay. If it was stolen, you can always show that you bought in good confidence and get the money back you paid for it. The law says that the victim of theft must buy it back for the price you paid. CAREFUL! Ginger Ale Phatphred Username: Phatphred Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 11:37 am:    The UK one has some kind of tune-o-matic bridge that is non-original. Why not ask the seller what happened to the missing block in the tailpiece? Incidentally, anyone know why they were called "Varitone" tailpieces? The open book one comes from a very highly respected member and something of an authority(strangely not Dave G this time) and you can, as they say, bid with confidence. Phatphred Username: Phatphred Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 12:14 pm:    By the way that block in the tailpiece is laminated plastic a la black-white Fender pick-guard material, which sits on a block of ebony. In the Gibson version, the words "Johnny Smith" were etched through the black layer to show in white. Any guitarist who was likely to forget his own name, or wished to remind posterity, could easily have scrawled his appellation or favoured phrase on it, although no-one I have found out about has had the doubtful taste to do it. I say "Gibson version" because, although the 2461 is a copy of the original Gibson Johnny Smith, the first Johnny Smith guitar was the D'Angelico New Yorker Special and, when Johnny Smith became disillusioned with Gibson, he endorsed a similar guitar for Guild for some time. He has recently gone back to Guild, working there with Robert Bennetto's elite team. I'm not so sure about GB's guitar being a 2461NT on that clip. Could have been a 2460 or something else. It has only one floating humbucker and one volume knob. Also, I couldn't spot how the lead came out of the pick guard. Elsewhere GB has the mini-jack coming out of the side of the pick guard and then the lead goes over the curve between the bouts, round the back and out between the strap and the tailpiece post. The configutarion of the floaters/guard, and electrics is such a fragile design that any way anyone else uses to lessen the possible impact at a live gig becomes a massive issue, believe me! Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 6:17 pm:    Good observation Phatphred, It has only one floating mini humbucker. Now was the first original Gibson Johnny Smith equipped with only one floating mini humbucker. I have a very short French description of the 2460, where it is described as an L-5CES with only one humbucker (the word floating or mini is not in it). Now, I don't know if that description is correct, but George's guitar is definitely not an L-5CES type, the controls are on the pickguard, not on the spruce top itself. So... WANTED: an adequate description of the 2460. It is also possible that George, as their top endorser had it custom made by Ibanez, with adaptions for live gigs. Varitone tailpiece is a confusing name because Gibson uses a 6 position Varitone tone selector switch on the ES-345, BB King Lucille and Little Lucille. I never use the name for the tailpiece. I call it L-5 tailpiece or something. Greetz, Ginger Ale Jazzzbo Username: Jazzzbo Registered: 09-2005 Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 10:51 pm:    COULD IT be the seller of the one johnny smith on ebay wasnt getting his price so he took the guitar off the auction?? , BTW , it didnt seem that clean to me, also, those controls on the pick guard looks like it could be a slipery slope, what say you/? jazz

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