What is the best semi-hollow (es335 t...

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Author Message Ibnose Username: Ibnose Registered: 11-2006 Posted on Tuesday, November 21, 2006 - 10:46 pm:    I'm new to the site and would like to pickup a semi-hollow and was curious about what the fellow enthusiasts think is the best semi to buy. thankyou Ibnose Joevocht Username: Joevocht Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 12:15 am:    depends on how much you want to spend!!! I for instance, feel my AS120, and gretsch 3161, are the best cause I got them below their true value...others will give you other models Acetan Username: Acetan Registered: 09-2003 Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 1:36 am:    If you can find one and money is no object, an AS400 would be perfect. Wildfield Username: Wildfield Registered: 05-2005 Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 1:59 am:    Being of small stature, I am a big fan of the AM series guitars. But, you don't have to be small to appreciate the compact size of the AM's. Ratfinks3 Username: Ratfinks3 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 3:17 am:    For the money I think a Cort manufactured AS120 with round ears, small headstock, and super 58's. Stay away from Samick made if you can, but they are still a good guitar, just turned out a lot and some were a little sloppy. Your under 600.00 on an AS120 with a good case. What type music are you playing Jazz, Blues, Rock, cover songs? The AS200 seems to be a good Jazz Fav for a lot of people. I like the AS120 since I am 335 style player and have played the Gibson since 1968, then got turned on to the neck of the Ibanez. I have a bad back and the Ibanez is much lighter than most S/H guitars I believe. I don't think you'll find a better neck than the Cort made 120 I mentioned above. I did measurements and readings and just got a well put together instrument from 1995. The neck was very much thinner than my AS80's and AS50, and pointed horned large headstock AS120. Small headstock round horns seem to get a better tone. The body is smaller in some areas and the strings line up better with the small headstock and just give better intonation overall. That's why I just bought one. Paid 450.00 with a case. It was close to mint. It outplays my 68 Orange Lable Gibber, and sounds just as good also. All around guitar for the bucks that will sound good on anything I believe is the Artstar 80 or 120 or 200. New stuff from Ibanez, I recommend the Artcore AS73G you just cant beat it for 350.00. I do like the prestege model for a solid body. THey are up there with PRS and other handmade instruments, and far above Gibson and Fender. The new Artcore AS73G had the super 58 pickups and a neck that is matched to the older 335's and I was told made of mahogany not maple. IT's kind of square feeling. Depending on your mad money, you can't beat an Ibanez for the dollar. Good luck. Rat Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 8:09 am:    High end: AS200 and AS400. Can't have them says the doctor... Not healthy for my wallet. Best value for the money: Cort manufactured AS120. They have: - the good Super 58's, - the MOP/Abalone/MOP inlays, - gold hardware - a nice neck and all for 50% of the price of an AS200. Mine is a sunburst, has a terrible handwritten serial number, I think from 2000, and a wide (Guild or tulip) headstock. It's a magnificent guitar. I was negociating about an AS400 but when the owner started raising the price and it went in the direction of trading my Koreans (that would be the AS120 and 2 Aria Pro II TA61 varitones), I didn't negociate any further. Ginger Fingersmcoy Username: Fingersmcoy Registered: 10-2006 Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 9:53 am:    It all comes down to- how much do you want to spend.Give us a hint,then you will get your answer!! Sixvsix Username: Sixvsix Registered: 03-2002 Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 10:51 am:    For good value go for the one of the Birch construction models like a AS100, Artist 2629 SA100, 2457 (355 copy) for example. They ain't as fancy as their more expensive maple brothers but still nice guitars and a little more mellow sounding than the maple guitars that can be a tad bright. For me, pickup selection is a big factor with a lot of Ibanez semi's so you may find yourself swapping out pups to help refine your tone. Also, from memory, all these guitars have a 14 degree headstcok rake and most with a volute. I can't think of any Ibanez semi that doesn't have a maple neck (usually 3 piece) with a ebonised rosewood or regular rosewood board on top. Don't confuse the SA's with the AS models. The AS series have a smaller body shape. Most of the others are all full size 335 some with the Micky Mouse ears say like a 59 Gibson 335. Do some searches around here using the model numbers we have supplied and see what tickles your fancy mate. Happy hunting six Guitartim Username: Guitartim Registered: 04-2001 Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 11:09 am:    Lbnose~ What is your price range? Are you looking for new or vintage? Japan, Korean, or Chinese production matter to you? Can't really help without a bit more from you. Guitartim Username: Guitartim Registered: 04-2001 Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 11:10 am:    Oops, Sorry, I meant 'Ibnose'! Ibnose Username: Ibnose Registered: 11-2006 Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 3:15 pm:    Hello brothers - I heard that the AS80 is one step down from the AS120 - dot inlay instead of block and silver hardware instead of gold. I have talked to someone about the Korean version (AS80). I kinda have my heart set on a MIJ h/b, 1980s. The AR2000 looks phenomenal too. And lastly,I guess around $1000. What will that buy? Johns Username: Johns Registered: 02-2001 Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 3:17 pm:    Ibnose: As you can see from the many different responses, the "best" is very subjective. My favorite is the AS200. I have 2, a '79 and an '81. Next favorite is my '81 AM205. To me, the sound between these two models is very different. For me, the AS200 is the most versatile guitar. Ibnose Username: Ibnose Registered: 11-2006 Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 3:26 pm:    Hi Johns and everyone on this thread. I also like the AS200 and the AM205- more from reputation having never played either. My incursion into the world of Ibanez only began about 3 months ago, with the purchase of an AF105F off Craigslist followed by an AF120 I had been tracking for some time. You guys may have heard of GAS...arrrggghh! Acetan Username: Acetan Registered: 09-2003 Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 3:42 pm:    With a $1,000 limit, you can go for a late 70's early 80's AS100 or AS50. If you can find a 2004 Artcore United AS193, you'll save a few dollars and lose very little over the AS100/50's. Among the current models, the Artcore Custom AS103 is very decent. I recommend staying away from the Korean AS80 and AS120 models. They are way below the MIJ models and have been surpassed by the top Chinese models. My favorite Ibanez semi's are the AM's but they're not "full-size" 335 types. Again, stick with the MIJ models. You'll find AM50, AM70 and AM100 models under $1,000. Good hunting. Guitartim Username: Guitartim Registered: 04-2001 Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 5:04 pm:    Be patient and keep looking at Ebay and Gbase over the next couple of months. Guitar sales typically slow down during the holidays and bargains pop up when/where you least expect it...even at this site! Good luck. Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 6:26 pm:    There is NO reason to stay away from Korean AS models, IF they're made by CORT and equipped with Super 58's. The SAMICK manufactured AS models (1994 until April 1995) used Super 50's, which lacked the necessary wax potting treatment. So if you want the Mickey Mouse ears and a narrow headstock and Super 58's, the best value for the money is an early CORT made (last 8 months of 1995 and 1996) AS120, like Mike aka Ratfinks3 has. And if you want pointy ears and a wide tulip (Guild) headstock and Super 58's, the best value for the money is an AS120 from 1997-2001. They were guitars with a list price of €950.- ($1224.-) and the value of a recent second hand guitar in good condition is 50-67%. If you buy a new Chinese Artcore AS103NT (list price €809.- which is about $1042.- but also seen on the web for $699.- and less), the value drops the very minute you walk out the door with 33-50%. Besides the Super 58 CUSTOM's in the Custom Artcores are ceramic humbuckers and NOT AlNiCo. You should be aware of these things before you buy. So it depends on what type of pickups you want, and whether you want to accept that the value of your NEW guitar decreases the minute you walk out the door. Of course you'll never know what the future will bring for the Artcore Custom models, because if you wait long enough, they might become Vintage too. But then we're talking about a period of 20-25 years. They MIGHT turn out to be a good long term investment, but we can't tell that for sure. If you buy a good second hand AS120 for 50% of the last list price (€475.- = $612.-) or less, because the prices in the 90's were lower (€950.- was the price in 2001), you have a guitar of steady value right away. You can sometimes find them for about $450-500 and if you want to spend twice that amount of money ($900-1000) go for a second hand AS200. Both are better short term investments than the young AS103NT (but who knows what the future will bring). The discontinued Artcore United AS193 is very interesting already. Ginger Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 6:46 pm:    This one's an example of an AS120 with non-original Seymour Duncan pickups: http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-1751-2978-71/1?AID=5463217&PID=1802666&mpre=ht tp%3A//cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll%3FViewItem%26item%3D230054588295 I don't understand why. It seems to be of August 1996, with a handwritten serial number 6080329 (NO C in the serial number, although it was made by CORT). I would have kept the Super 58's. So, if you snipe, snipe low and put some bucks aside for Super 58's. Ginger Michaelkaufman Username: Michaelkaufman Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 7:07 pm:    You cannot go wrong with this one: http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-1751-2978-71/1?AID=5463217&PID=1802666&mpre=ht tp%3A//cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll%3FViewItem%26item%3D250052716014 It has a smaller body than an ES-335 but bigger then an AM50. I love mine! The red color is harder to find than the brown burst. I think this one has V2's which are much hotter than Super 58's. Can anyone confirm because my previous AS50 had V2's, however, they were all white, not zebra.... I bought one earlier this year: same red color w/ Gibson Burstbucker pickups for $800, which, due to the pickups, was more than one normally pays. I think the (vintage) AS50's are a steal. mk Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 7:39 pm:    Yeah, I saw that one. But there are still 6 days to go and it might end just as high as yours. I think that's too close to an AS200 bargain, if you have the choice. This one doesn't have your Burstbuckers! I wouldn't go too high on this one, since there was an AS200 Artstar available for $900.- a few days ago. And there's still that 80's "Pleked" AS200 Artist for $1099.- (BTW, I don't know about these zebra pickups...) Ginger Johns Username: Johns Registered: 02-2001 Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 8:06 pm:    Michael: The cherry AS50 on ebay is a tough one to nail down because there are several catalogs from '81 and one from '82 that have slightly different specs for the AS50. The 1981 "Electric Guitars" catalog shows the AS50 in Cherry and lists it as coming in CH and AV finish. It's shown with double white bobbin V2s. Another "Electric Guitars" catalog, copyright 1981, printed in Jan. 1981 shows the AS50 in Cherry finish, but does not list any other finish color. It's also shown with uncovered, double white bobbin V2s and stated to have a 3 ply birch neck. Then there is the "'82 Full & Semi-Acoustic Electric Guitars" catalog which is copyrighted in 1981, but printed in Dec. 1981. It shows the AS50 in AV finish, but does not list CH. It is listed as having covered Super 58s and a Mahogany neck. So, is this made to 1981 specs, with V2s and does it have a birch or mahogany neck? Here's what doesn't match any of the cats: it's missing the pickguard, and regardless of whether it came with V2s or Super 58s, they are all shown as having 3-point adjustment screws and have black surrounds. I'd guess these pups and surrounds are not original. Fingersmcoy Username: Fingersmcoy Registered: 10-2006 Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 8:21 pm:    $1000.00 gives you a lot of choices.I just sold an AS80 very nice guitar it went for around 350.00 or so.AS200 even better if you can pick one up for under 1000.00? Low end model will cost you around 1100.00 high end over 1200.00 Pat Metheny PM-20 will cost you about 1000.00 for high end. I like the PM 120 myself.George Benson GB-10 1990s will cost you around 1200.00 low end.About 1600.00 high end.*All these figures are to give you some idea of what these guitars are worth.but if you buy from e-bay or C/L you might get a better deal? Johns Username: Johns Registered: 02-2001 Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 8:49 pm:    Fingers: The PMs and GBs are great, but I don't think they fit in the ES335 type (semi-hollow) category. Fingersmcoy Username: Fingersmcoy Registered: 10-2006 Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 9:10 pm:    I think your right john- its an oversite on my part. Every time i see a semi-hollow or hollow body i think 335 for some odd reason.The 335 has a wider (body)i believe? than the PM .The GB has a wide body but its thicker than the 335.I guess when i see a s/ hollow or a full H/ body i dont see all that much difference,but im sure there is ? Michaelkaufman Username: Michaelkaufman Registered: 11-2002 Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 9:17 pm:    ES-335 is a double cut-away semi. Personally, if I was purchasing an AS200, I'd hold out for a late 70's 2630/AS200 or early 80's AS200. My '79 was the best Ibanez guitar I've ever owned. IF you can score a nice one for less than $1,000, I think you've done extremely well. mk Jazzzbo Username: Jazzzbo Registered: 09-2005 Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 10:52 pm:    I second that, my 78 2630 is probably one of the best guitars ive ever owned, and ive had quite a few in the last 40 some odd years of playing, ps mike, what about those pups i askey you about???, jazzzzz Acetan Username: Acetan Registered: 09-2003 Posted on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 1:37 am:    Korean models are ok if you are on a tight budget. Even the fancy AS120 can be had for much less than $1,000. People in general just find them lacking. Here's an AS120 with 20 hours to go on eBay. http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-1751-2978-71/1?AID=5463217&PID=1802666&mpre=ht tp%3A//cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll%3FViewItem%26item%3D250050858994 Petruz Username: Petruz Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 4:31 am:    don't forget about MIJ AS80s, great guitars, and AS180s too! Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 7:54 am:    If that AS120 would be around the corner, I wouldn't even need a taxi. IMO the gold Quik Change II is not original on the AS120, it's an AS200 replacement part. The combination with a Full Tune II is a bit unusual, but it will work fine. I've considered replacing all LP tailpieces on my semi-acoustics with Quik Change II's, but I didn't. I use one chrome QCII on my Suzuki ES-335 walnut/maple/walnut model. Ace, you wrote: "Even the fancy AS120 can be had for much less than $1,000. People in general just find them lacking". Those "people in general" are certainly not the AS120 owners we have in our midst, or those (25) who put their reviews of their guitar on Harmony Central: http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Guitar/product/Ibanez/AS120+Artstar/1 0/1 So what are they lacking? A "made in Japan" sticker? I found no big differences in the ratings for sound, reliability/durability and the overal rating between the AS120 and the MIJ AS180. http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Guitar/product/Ibanez/AS180+Artstar/1 0/1 You also wrote: "I recommend staying away from the Korean AS80 and AS120 models. They are way below the MIJ models and have been surpassed by the top Chinese models." The 7 reviews of the AS103NT on Harmony Central prove otherwise: http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Guitar/product/Ibanez/AS103+NT/10/1 The Chinese guitars are nice for the low price, but have a long way to go. What's remarkable, is that 2 out of these 7 reviewers gave an average rating of 6.0 on customer support. So more than 28% NEEDED that support and wasn't that satisfied. That's not good. The same goes BTW for the support on AS120's, 9 out of 25 NEEDED support (36%) and averagely rated it with 5.9!! So the service at the distribution centres sucks! Hoshino should do something about that. But then this one... the United Artcore AS193: http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Guitar/product/Ibanez/AS193/10/1 6 reviews, none of them needed support. And the overall rating: 9.8!!! From the statistics I gather that this one is the ideal ES-335 clone. I have the promo somewhere, but I never had this guitar in my hands. But I think it's not so easy to find one. Ginger Johns Username: Johns Registered: 02-2001 Posted on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 8:53 am:    Ginger: Your homework demonstrates an inherent flaw in making conclusions based solely on Harmony Central's statistics. Better to read the reviews to get accurate data. For example, you state: "The 7 reviews of the AS103NT on Harmony Central prove otherwise: http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Guitar/product/Ibanez/AS103+NT/10/1 The Chinese guitars are nice for the low price, but have a long way to go." And then come to this conclusion: "What's remarkable, is that 2 out of these 7 reviewers gave an average rating of 6.0 on customer support. So more than 28% NEEDED that support and wasn't that satisfied. That's not good. " Here's what the only 2 persons who even rated the Customer Support category actually had to say: "Customer Support: 9. As I said, I bought this from soundsgreat, the guys there will look after me as I buy from there most of the time - they are know for TOP customer support." "Customer Support: 3. I don't have much exeperience dealing with Ibanez, except I emailed them a couple times to see if this was a full hollow or semi-hollow and I never received a reply." The comments clearly show that neither person had a problem with their guitars that required any "Customer Support". Add this to the fact that 5 out of the 7 had "No Opinion" because they had no problems that required Customer Support and you have to come to a very different conclusion regarding the satisfaction level with the AS103NT. I think you owe the lowly AS103NT an apology. Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 9:12 am:    I agree, I just spent 45 minutes playing mine this morning and loved every minute of it. Ibnose was drawn to Ibanez guitars after buying the AF105. That alone says there is something special about the Chinese Arcore Custom's. I don't know how much more they will go but I'm happy with what they've done so far. Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 9:59 am:    I think, I owe the AS103NT nothing. A comment on customer support has nothing to do with the guitar. The guy who gave Customer Support a 3, did this because he received no reply on his e-mails. So the distributor is the one who should apologise to his customer for their lazy attitude. The guy who gave Customer Support a 9 is referring at his dealer, who will perform just as well servicing other guitars. That has NOTHING to do with the performance of the IBANEZ network. He's just lucky to have found a shop with good craftsmen. I'm just as critical on the Customer Support ratings of the AS120. (Same service network). A 5.9 average frome 9 consumers is NOT good. -------------------------------------------------- Examples of comments on the SERVICE NETWORK: Customer Support : 1 Service from Ibanez, what's that? 9 always answered by emails 5 I sent an email to Ibanez expressing my and YOUR disapointment at their non-existant customer service. They replied!! Twice in two days, I was in shock. their email is contact@ibanez.com This goes to Hoshino USA and we all need to stay on them and train into reliable customer service!! 5 Bad, for what I know. And, for what I can see, becoming even worse... But here things are very subjective... 1 Unlike Peavey, they have never returned an email. I hope I never actually need them for anything but so far I have not. 10 Excelent company to deal with. 5 I wish they had an 800 number for Customer Support; they only have an email address, with no promise of a response. I did inquire via email about one of the features in the AS120 and did get a timely response. It is under warranty for one year from date of purchase. Funny thing, I have never seen an Ibanez Jazz guitar at a Guitar Center; I played my first one at a consignment shop! 7 I haven't dealt with the company itself, so I can't say anything about them. I have nonetheless dealt with the italian Ibanez dealer, and I'm not that happy. I've had to wait almost two months for the guitar to be delivered at my local store, and they didn't deliver the hard case they told it was included in the price. Everything considered, I'd say 7 (they have recently lowered the prices!! :D ) 10 Never needed them, but the dealer says they are the best. Very supportive. ------------------------------------------------ So what Hoshino quality managers should do, is read the negative feedback, and translate it into improvement measures, and not allow their employees to lean backward because of the few 9s and 10s they received (the 10 was actually indirectly given by a dealer). THIS IS NOT A GUITAR SPECIFIC PROBLEM. IT'S AN ATTITUDE PROBLEM! ANALYSE AND IMPROVE! The average rating of the AS120 is 0.7 higher than that of the AS103NT. Sound is 0.3 better Action fit and finish is 0.6 better Reliability/Durability is 0.3 better As I said: The AS103NT is nice for that price! No more, no less... Ginger Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 10:07 am:    Oops, correction: Reliability/Durability of the AS120 is even 0.4 better. Ginger Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 10:16 am:    You could try this 4 ply black one for €11.50 part number E-3-4B. http://www.backandforth.nl/scratchplates.html It's in Holland, but perhaps without the metal parts it could be shipped cheap in a bubbly envelope. Ginger Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 10:22 am:    Wow, this one was for Fingers McCoy's Epi Dot question in the Free Classifieds. I just installed Firefox on the Mrs' laptop to do some HTML editing (doesn't work, just can watch the source code, so I'll have to install good old Netscape 4.7), and now I somehow got lost and the message I wrote for Fingers landed here. Sorry Ginger Ibanezfreak1960 Username: Ibanezfreak1960 Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 10:34 am:    Hoshino USA has its own forum at Ibanez.com with plenty of topics and chances to interact with customer service. Harmony Central can kiss my •••. Ibanez.com forum has a lot of usefull info. I think we all know how to do our own research and don't need these threads filled with crap from other forums. The AS103 hasn't been around long enough to compare it to other models as far as reliablilty/durability. These guitars are very good quality and not just for the price and certainly not because I own one. I've bought and sold a good number of Artcores since they 1st were introduced and when I got the 103 I was pleased. Get used to the fact that production of mid priced Ibanez has moved from Japan! That doesn't mean the guitars are bad. Acetan Username: Acetan Registered: 09-2003 Posted on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 11:10 am:    Reminds me of the joke, "...there are lies, damn lies, and statistics." Seriously, I would always take comments on an open, commercial, web sites with a grain of salt. Comments from this forum reflects opinions from owners who really know Ibanezes. This thread from last week speaks volumes about the subject of Korean Ibanezes: http://www.ibanezcollectors.com/discus/messages/16/19923.html?1163852846 Ibnose Username: Ibnose Registered: 11-2006 Posted on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 11:59 am:    very interesting discussion - you guys know yer stuff and you represent a world I didn't know existed. But I'm hooked! I started off a few months ago playing the entry level stuff in the local guitar store mainly Epi and Ibanez. The artcore amazed me for their necks and overall playability-$for$ they outperformed the Epis IMO. So I started researching and waiting. The af105f came up 2nd hand probably 50% cheaper with everything in. Tried it loved it bought it. I would only sell it if I needed the $ to buy something I was desperate for. That is what you call a disease! And thats how it started. Guitartim Username: Guitartim Registered: 04-2001 Posted on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 12:59 pm:    Psst...Ibnose~ The BEST Ibanez semi-hollow out there today is the 'JSM100' Scofield. If you EVER get a chance to pick one up, you will have to have it. Yes, it is over the $1,000 budget you mentioned, but since your intial question asked for 'the best', I just wanted to toss that one at ya. For now, start with whatever semi works for you based on what you can afford. That's not a bad thing considering all of the great guitars that are in the marketplace these days...new and used. Again, good luck on your qwest. Yours sounds like so many of us guys here who started out being amazed at Ibanez' bang-for-buck quality/tone/sound/feel...and have been hooked ever since. Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 3:42 pm:    "I recommend staying away from the Korean AS80 and AS120 models. They are way below the MIJ models and have been surpassed by the top Chinese models." (Acetan) "I think we all know how to do our own research and don't need these threads filled with crap from other forums." (Ibanezfreak1960) I own an good AS120, and so do several other members. The only members who reported problems with an AS120 were those who have one made by Samick (with non-wax potted Super 50's). Despite this microphonic feedback problem, these and every other member who owns one expressed his enthusiasm about the AS120. So Acetan, what EXPERIENCES do you really have with the AS120 that you can make a comparison with the top Chinese Artcores such as the AS103NT, without using second hand information, not being statistics made up of USER reviews? Because, if your recommendation is NOT based on your own experience with the AS120, AND NOT on REVIEWS of USERS, what is your recommendation worth? I can speak from my own experience with the AS120, when I say I love this guitar. But I will never recommend people to stay away from the Artcore AS103NT, because I did never own one. I tried it and compared it 7 user reviews with the 25 user reviews of the AS120. As I said, the AS103NT is nice for the price. But it's a young guitar with less second hand value than the AS120 at the moment and with ceramic pickups (so has my old Yamaha SG400, and it sounds fantastic), but they're of a different character than AlNiCo pickups, also very appreciated (a 9.3 average is NOT NOTHING!). If you keep the guitar for 2.5 decades, its value will make the same development as the good old 2355m. Because aged natural flamed maple will alway be appreciated. Ginger Mr_roadstar Username: Mr_roadstar Registered: 06-2002 Posted on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 4:31 pm:    The "Best" Semi-Hollow is one I can borrow for a recording session and retuen. I've never found one I liked enough to keep. Other peoples opinions are a place to start. Combine that with the manufactures information and you've got a good base to start your search. In the end, I've gotta be the one to make the final decision on any guitar/gear purchase. Too often, the end result is still trial and error . Anything posted on review sites or that gawd-awful Wikipedia are, at best, an informed opinion and subject to verification. Hell, I question stuff posted here all the time The Bear Ibnose Username: Ibnose Registered: 11-2006 Posted on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 5:18 pm:    I appreciate and respect all that has been contributed to this thread - experience is hard to argue with. That being said I saw an as80 MIK 1994 guitar available for $450. Suppose to be in excellent condition. How would you guys like to give a rating out of 1 to 10 for my benefit? That would be greatly appreciated. Cheers and thanks again. Ibnose Username: Ibnose Registered: 11-2006 Posted on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 5:26 pm:    I appreciate and respect all that has been contributed to this thread - experience is hard to argue with. That being said I saw an as80 MIK 1994 guitar available for $450. Suppose to be in excellent condition. How would you guys like to give a rating out of 1 to 10 for my benefit? That would be greatly appreciated. Cheers and thanks again. Petruz Username: Petruz Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 5:47 pm:    i had one MIJ as80 back in the eighties - my first ibanez. great axe: great tone, great neck and great refinishing. what more to ask for? the early '80s MIJ as80s were high end instruments. the differences from the as200s were cosmetic - no flamed tops, no golden hardware, dot necks, lesser bindings - just like the real mccoys. Holmis63 Username: Holmis63 Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 7:04 pm:    I think one have to compare the other way around, does the gibson es335 really match up to the semi hollow and hollow bodie ebanezs? This weekend i was on a studio session in Stockholm and a friend brought his metallic blue 1998 es335. It razzling and dazzling on the frets and sounded really mellow and frankly quite boring! I brought my 1977 Bob Weir (of course no hollow body guitar but!) and it just outplayed the gibby in every way, no buzzing and so much more versatile!! I think ibanezs is much more useful as an instrument compared to a gibson! I΄ve experienced this difference so many times now that i must say, it΄s not the bargain you catch when you buy an ibanez, you buy a better guitar! It΄s as simple as that! Holmis63 Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 7:24 pm:    Ibnose, the 1994 MIK AS80 (made by Samick and not by Cort and equipped with Super 50's and not Super 58's) is the worst example of the Korean Artstars, even when it is in excellent condition, you would have to wax pot the pickups or replace them. For example Rick aka Hazy seems satisfied about the wood, and wax potted the pickups. The MIJ AS80 from the 80's Petruz is refering to, is a far better guitar. The AS80's made by Cort are somewhere in between. Mike aka Ratfinks3 had 2, made in 2001 by Cort. He sold one and still has regrets. If you want a Korean AS with chrome hardware, it's better to buy one made by CORT. Then you won't have the pickup troubles. They cost time and/or money too, you know. $450.- is a reasonable price if the pickup problem has been solved in a proper way by the former owner. Ginger Ibnose Username: Ibnose Registered: 11-2006 Posted on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 7:48 pm:    Right Gin I recall an earlier mention about Samick made as80 regarding the super 50's vs the super 58's (which I believe are in the af120). OK so far its going to be MIJ preferably 80's and I guess it could be as50 as80 as120 as180 as200 also the am series - Holy Cow - I'm going to end up like Gollum at this rate but I think we all agree these guitars are "our precious". What I'll probably end up doing is putting out a request on Craigslist... my first experience with ebay the guy kind of goosed me - was supposed to get the ball rolling stalled me and then disappeared altogether. So I'm keeping away from ebay, the bad taste in the mouth type of thing. I love you guys. Keep your comments coming. I'm learning a lot. cheers Ibnose Fingersmcoy Username: Fingersmcoy Registered: 10-2006 Posted on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 7:50 pm:    $400.00 is the high end going price.Any more than that well ill be nice.Its your call- Good luck Ibnose ! Fingersmcoy Username: Fingersmcoy Registered: 10-2006 Posted on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 7:59 pm:    My experience on e-bay is if i buy a guitar from someone w/ a low score below 100 i expect the guitar to be a fixer- uper.I bought a brand spanking new guitar from a seller and it had some flaws like a blem.(it wasnt listed as such) Im glad it didnt effect playability.Anyway im still wating to get a deal like the ones i offer.Oh well i hear hell is freezing over! Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 8:25 pm:    Super 58's were in the AF120's from the moment CORT took over the production of Korean Artstars. Before that, they had the same Super 50's as their semi-hollow AS sisters. As far as I know Samick lost the contract in April 1995. So that would mean that from May 1995 on you're safe. What's also important, is what accessories you get with the guitar. For example: if it's sold including really good semi-acoustic case, $450.- (€347.41) is certainly not too much. Ginger Ibnose Username: Ibnose Registered: 11-2006 Posted on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 8:26 pm:    Hi Fingmac Does that mean that you sell the odd guitar or is that info to be found on the ICW free classifieds? One way or another I'm determined to get myself that brilliant Ibanez hollow-I just don't know when it will be. thankyou gentlemen Ibnose Fingersmcoy Username: Fingersmcoy Registered: 10-2006 Posted on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 11:37 pm:    Ib. if i had the guitar your looking for i would have sold it too you- yesterday at your price.Last Ibanez guitar i bought for resale, i had to travel over 100 miles and go to an obscured hood,where i had to take off my shoes before i entered the house.That was the easy part.The hard part was getting directions form a dude that i couldnt understand a single word.Im not sure i would go through that again ?*The story you have just heard is all true! Mandocaster Username: Mandocaster Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 11:46 pm:    +1 vote for the MIJ AS80. I got mine on ebay for about $525 earlier this year. Like buttah. Petruz Username: Petruz Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Friday, November 24, 2006 - 3:15 am:    ibnose, i spotted an '87 MIJ as80 here in rome: http://www.mercatinomusicale.com/ann/ann.asp/IDA_473726/ibanez-artist-as80-semia custica-del-1987.htm i called the seller some weeks ago, seems to be a serious guy. i was planning to buy the guitar but... no cash at the moment... Ratfinks3 Username: Ratfinks3 Registered: 11-2004 Posted on Friday, November 24, 2006 - 4:23 am:    Ok here's the 411, the skinny,..... listen to these guys, (especially Ginger), get your mad money, and go buy what you can afford. You've been told what is good, but even better, you have been told what to stay away from, WHAT IS BAD. Everyone has their own preference. If you want a good starter, I'm guessing that is what your doing or you would not be asking us, then go for something under 500 or so and get with Ginger or some of the other experts on ICW, and see what they recommend for that price. I say a Cort AS 80 or AS120 from the mid 90's. That is what Ginger and a couple of others helped me with and they pointed me in the direction to now playing the best guitar I have ever owned, and I've been playing guitar 43 years, so I've made the mistakes with buying guitars that everyone else has, that's giving you advise on this page now. If you got big bucks, go with the intel the big buck guys are telling you and spend a couple of grand and get a vintage jap made Ibanez which is collectable and playable and sounds great. But remember, collectable does not always mean sounds and plays well. I've had collectable guitars that I would not take in a club as they were too valuable for some drunk to fall over and cause me to loose my freedom. Some 5 figure vintage guitars today sound and play like crap. Are you a collector or player. Ibanez is consistant. Even the poor ones sound and play well. Get something you can play, and feels good to your hands and sounds good to your ears. But, what ever you do, stay away from some custom shop guitar that is intentionally beat up with a chain, scratched up, spit on, stepped on, sanded on, and burned with a cigar, so it will look like some guitar hero's axe and cost your 5K. As time goes on, your going to want more than one in your quiver anyway. If I only had one guitar or was buying my first Ibanez, I would go with an as80 or as120 with super 58's from the Cort factory. The Cort factory did produce a thinner neck, (2mm at the 5th fret). Some of the woods were different, and bracing was different and creative as well. I compared measurements with the Samick factory instruments, with Cort instruments, and the guitars are very different. What do you like best? Small head stock, or large one, round horns or pointed ones, large F holes or smaller ones, smooth pickups or hot ones? What type of music do you play the most? Go with a Cort Artstar 80 or 120 and you'll be under 600 with a good case, and you'll find one quick, and start your collection then move up from there. One good thing is your going with Ibanez. If you find one on ebay people on ICW will help you with the bidding and evaluation. Ibanez is the most under rated and under priced guitar on the market today and probably the last 30 years. Of course all of this is MY OPINION. But seriously, the guys you see on here a lot usually have the correct answer for you. They have been there and done that what you are doing now. Getting their first Ibanez. So go do it. NOW !! Later Rat Phatphred Username: Phatphred Registered: 03-2006 Posted on Friday, November 24, 2006 - 6:33 am:    Holmis63, I would say that a fairer comparison with the AS200 would be the Gibson ES347, which was introduced to replace the 345 (Stereo, but almost invariably wired back to mono) and the 355 (BB King's Lucille, no F holes, varitone switch). The 347 has a 3-pc maple neck, parallel/series switching and an ebony fretboard and sounds more convincing in the jazz and blues idioms than the 335 to my ears. Dave Stryker plays one, as well as a GB10. But then, as I think Woody Allen once said, "He knows God, personally." http://www.davestryker.com/ One arguably nice feature of the 347 is the fine tuners on the tailpiece. Quite how this stresses strings and bridge saddles, I am not qualified to say. The 335's a lovely guitar, but woods, cratsmanship, refinements and appointments were more costly to Gibson than to Ibanez. Production and materials sourcing costs just ran away from Gibson. Johns Username: Johns Registered: 02-2001 Posted on Friday, November 24, 2006 - 3:51 pm:    Ginger: Looking back at your post on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 07:54 am, you are the one who introduced poor "Customer Support" scores on Harmony Central, as proof to refute Acetan's statement: "I recommend staying away from the Korean AS80 and AS120 models. They are way below the MIJ models and have been surpassed by the top Chinese models". You made this link with your very next sentence: "The 7 reviews of the AS103NT on Harmony Central prove otherwise:..." Harmony Central's Customer Support stats are IRRELEVANT to this thread. There was never any discussion in this conversation about the quality of Customer Service, until you brought it up. You did so as a way to support your side of an argument. The fact is, you used those figures inappropriately. End of story. Nothing more to discuss. The point of this thread was about the "best" semi-acoustic. The "BEST"??? It's a loaded question that has no correct answer. So, don't be so dogmatic. By defending your love of your Korean AS120 using your own first-hand experience, you have a lot more credibilty than by supporting your thoughts with faulty data. For instance, your post on Thursday, November 23, 2006 - 03:42 pm, while still relying on Harmony Central user reviews, carries much more weight. Ginger, I'm considering this tangent of "Customer Service" a dead issue. Do not continue this line of thought. If you or anyone else wants to start another thread on the subject, it's valid. But make sure it's in the Miscellaneous section. NOTE TO ALL: Remember that I am NOT an average forum member! Everyone is here at my discretion. (As Mel Brooks said: "It's good to be king!") Think VERY, VERY HARD about how your words will be received by MY eyes and brain. Don't make me annoyed. My wife is the only person who can tick me off and get away unscathed. JohnS Sysop/King Ibnose Username: Ibnose Registered: 11-2006 Posted on Friday, November 24, 2006 - 7:37 pm:    One last question(for now) fellas- What do you think of buying the '94 Korean as80 and then doing the upgrades? One of the reasons I ask is that I live in Canada and a lot of ebayers say they ship only to the 48 continental states. So, pros or cons? and thanks much again. Ibnose Ibnose Username: Ibnose Registered: 11-2006 Posted on Friday, November 24, 2006 - 7:39 pm:    One last question(for now) fellas- What do you think of buying the '94 Korean as80 and then doing the upgrades? One of the reasons I ask is that I live in Canada and a lot of ebayers say they ship only to the 48 continental states. So, pros or cons? and thanks much again. Ibnose Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Friday, November 24, 2006 - 8:09 pm:    John, I was trying to defend good Korean semi-hollow body guitars from a non-emotional point of view, using statistic figures, which perhaps wasn't the wisest thing to do, since I am not non-emotional when it comes to the AS120. (You will have noticed that.) If someone says your guitar is no good, the non-emotional reaction could be asking him about his personal experience with the instrument. Which I did later on... (no answer) But if for instance someone says your wife is no good, it is perhaps better NOT to keep things civilised and scientific, quoting the positive feedback of her 25 lovers on Harmony Central. Because, in fact you're hurt. So it's better to give him a smack in the eye. That goes for my guitar too. I just should have said: "Ace, you know just as little about the AS120 as you know about my wife, so shut up!" But I have a confession to make... MY FAVOURITE SEMI-ACOUSTIC IS NOT AN IBANEZ, BUT THIS ONE: http://www.centrepompidou.fr/education/ressources/ENS-surrealisme/image03.htm Ginger Hazy Username: Hazy Registered: 10-2006 Posted on Friday, November 24, 2006 - 8:16 pm:    he 1995 Samick AS120 is THE inferior Artstar of the lot. I'm amazed that they can fetch even $400 USD. The Super 50's are the worst pups I've ever heard and you all are correct in that the Super 58s are much better all around. Hazy Joevocht Username: Joevocht Registered: 08-2005 Posted on Saturday, November 25, 2006 - 1:34 am:    4 what its worth...I've been playing guitar for 53 years (even owned a guitar shop for 6 years) and have played them all (during the early 80's)In fact I was the first one on Long Island to recognize the value of Ibanez guitars. I sold them, traded them, repaired them and even gave lessons...my latest love after all that is both my Gretsch G3161 ,for its acoustic resonance , beauty and great playability and, above all my Artstar AS120 s.n. 8070049. It is the kind of guitar that, not only is a beautiful sight to behold but responds to the slightest nuances of your fingers especially with thomastic jazz 11's on it. It feels like a part of your anatomy while playing it...the super 58's emit fantastic sound responses whether playing jazz, blues or rock. Though some have called it a low end, I call it 'class' Hazy Username: Hazy Registered: 10-2006 Posted on Saturday, November 25, 2006 - 1:26 pm:    Wildfield Username: Wildfield Registered: 05-2005 Posted on Saturday, November 25, 2006 - 2:31 pm:    How about this one? (Disclaimer - I've never played an AS...just happened to run across this on e-Bay today.) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280051467412&fromMakeTrack=tr ue Fingersmcoy Username: Fingersmcoy Registered: 10-2006 Posted on Saturday, November 25, 2006 - 5:36 pm:    Wild- thats an awesome guitar.Lots of nice guitars out there.This one looks like a gem !!!I think this is my last post on this thread.This could go on 4 ever Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Saturday, November 25, 2006 - 5:46 pm:    Very nice, but H9051XX is a 1989 made in the Terada factory, not an August 1990! Beautiful grain + OHSC, reasonable starting bid, nothing wrong with this one. But a lot can happen in 44 hours. It could get expensive if people start bidding against each other. There is this AS100 in a Gibson case with that awful magenta lining for over $1200.- for several months on Ebay. It wouldn't surprise me if this owner expects something in that direction. I think it will fetch 800-900 if the seller doesn't pull it back. Ginger Petruz Username: Petruz Registered: 05-2004 Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 11:29 am:    there are two cherry AS120s artstars on elderly.com right now. Boogieknight Username: Boogieknight Registered: 01-2004 Posted on Tuesday, November 28, 2006 - 2:47 pm:    http://www.ibanezcollectors.com/discus/messages/16/623.jpg Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 12:04 pm:    Wow, the flamed AS100AV H9051XX went for $699.- yesterday. So that's just €531.28 now. That's a good buy. Ginger Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 12:32 pm:    Ibnose, Buying an early ArtStar AS model made by Samick and upgrading it later is not a bad idea. But perhaps Hazy wants to sell you his AS120 for $400.- He already wax potted the Super 50's... Artfield Username: Artfield Registered: 04-2001 Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 1:29 pm:    My favourite is the AM205 , i just sold one For those looking there is an AS100 sunburst in the North of The Netherlands for sale, the guys is asking 795 euros which is a good price, here is the link: http://www.gitaarfreak.nl/showroom/vintage.html Talajuha Username: Talajuha Registered: 11-2006 Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 1:54 pm:    Future collector's items? Nice video test/demonstrations at www.guitaretv.com . Ibanez AS103, AF105, AF125, AGS83, two electro-acoustic and other trademarks. Language is French. For me the best is AS103, sounds nice with TB15R at that test. I'll buy them one of these days. I can't afford JSM100 or other as expensive. Juha Hazy Username: Hazy Registered: 10-2006 Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 2:13 pm:    Ginger, As tempting an idea as that is, I wouldn't want to offend anyone on the forum by offering such an inferior model. I'll just keep it for now and accept the loss. Rick Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 2:40 pm:    Patricio, I wouldn't say the AM Stagemasters are ES-335 copies. They sound totally different. But they are very nice indeed. Did you sell it to a ICW member? The AS100 is more like it. But €795.00 = $1045.98 today. So for our friends from the USA this is NOT a good time to buy instruments from the EU, now €1.- is $1.315 while for us it's reasonable, because we get paid in Euros. What's good about this one: it comes with a pickguard and an OHSC, which supports the neck very well. They're really good cases (ƒ295.- back in the 80's, which wasn't cheap then). Ginger Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 05-2006 Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 2:50 pm:    Rick, How compassionate of you. Perhaps we could adopt a few of these poor little outcasts... I see it there right in front of me: "The AS120 Orphanage" Ginger PS: Someone willing to give a donation? Artfield Username: Artfield Registered: 04-2001 Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 6:20 pm:    Ginger, I sold the Ibanez to nice guy in France,he came to pick it up. Actually this is the scond time someone comes from France to pick it up.They must be very popular in France. If it is possible i would travel too, for my new Artfield i travelled to Germany. Ginger ...yep...these conversion dollars /euros is a bid high for our friends in the USA...but i think these AS100 are very good investments, i use to have a red one, but sold it because they are too big for me..very nice sound indeed. Hazy Username: Hazy Registered: 10-2006 Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 9:48 pm:    Ah yes, the 1st ever: Multi-Continent AS120 Orphanage, a home for wayward Samicks with Super 50s. Please, as Ginger said, volunteers? Brings a tear to my eye... Ibnzplyr Username: Ibnzplyr Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 12:03 am:    Talajuha Nice video test/demonstrations at www.guitaretv.com-- ************************************************************ Is this link working? I tried it in three browsers and I just get a bigger pic of the guy with the Chinese made AS gtr. No video. Talajuha Username: Talajuha Registered: 11-2006 Posted on Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 4:06 am:    Ibnzplyr Link works, but without the hyphens at the end. Find and click "_tests" -button on the bar and you will get the menu: 17/11/2006 - Test de la video Ibanez AGS 83B » 17/11/2006 - Test de la guitare Ibanez AEL 20E » 16/11/2006 - Test de la guitare Ibanez AEG 10E » 16/11/2006 - Test de la guitare WSL The Dragon » 16/11/2006 - Test de la guitare Lag Arkane AM 100 » 15/11/2006 - Test de la guitare Lag Roxane RM 100 » 15/11/2006 - Test de la guitare Daisy Rock Candy Rock » 08/11/2006 - Test des guitares Ibanez AS 103, AF 105 et AF 125 » 01/11/2006 - Test de la guitare Jackson DKMGTFF Dinky EMG » 01/11/2006 - Test de la guitare WSL Black Bone Then click one of "Test de la ..." Requires good broadband connection or downloading and watching offline to avoid jerky show. (or click "play" after first jerky show) Juha Ibnzplyr Username: Ibnzplyr Registered: 03-2004 Posted on Friday, December 01, 2006 - 2:03 pm:    Thanks Juha-- the key for me was clicking the "test" button. I understand French pretty well. I wonder if the AS103, and maybe the others in the blonde bunch, are going to be classics. The AS103 in my book is a gorgeous instrument. He played it beautifully. From what I heard, it sounds great for jazz, yet has the versatility expected in a 335-type guitar. My local guitar center didn't have one for me to try, but they ordered one so I could try it out. I am interested in any and all opinions on any aspects of the 103.

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