| Author |
Message |
Davejacobs
Username: Davejacobs
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, November 26, 2006 - 8:11 am: | |
Saw this on ibanez.co.jp today,
a good thing though I don't think this will help many people from getting robbed. Of course this copy problem doesn't only effect Ibanez and isn't just guitar related. These days those guys are copying everything up to cars (si=0.html,http://www2.auto.t-online.de/dyn/c/96/91/06/9691068,si=0.html) and even real estate. It is not a secret that Ibanez made itself a reputation through copying in the beginning but at least didn't put the Gibson BRAND on a Gibson copy (at least I assume they didn't :-) and their quality did match or exceed the quality of the originals, which can't be said about what's currently coming out of Asia. Assuming no government anywhere will be doing anything to stop this new movement (too many interest involved) shouldn't it be the responsability of communities like ours to inform the guitar buying public about the potential risk to end up with a worthless counterfeit Ibanez (or any other brand guitar) and how to avoid that risk?
Dave.
(Sorry about the link but the newurl tag obviously doesn't support urls with a colon.) |
Fingersmcoy
Username: Fingersmcoy
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 29, 2006 - 8:55 pm: | |
The irony here is- hasnt Ibanez copied(or tried to copy) Gibson Les Paul .When it comes to making money nothing is sacred. |
Mr_roadstar
Username: Mr_roadstar
Registered: 06-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 9:39 pm: | |
Ibanez guitars were not built with forged headstock logos. Nor did they try to pass them off as genuine.
The Bear |
Jchester
Username: Jchester
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, November 30, 2006 - 11:57 pm: | |
Well said, Bear. You beat me to it. |
Fingersmcoy
Username: Fingersmcoy
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 4:46 pm: | |
Mr. how would you know were you in on the creation of the Ibanez les paul copy.Im sure your fluent in Japanese also!I dont think the copy write laws have that asterik in the law?? Sheesh!Ibanez tried to copy the Gibson Les Paul this is a fact- move on now son,why try to defend that postion.I sense a deep love here for the maker of the copy.Hmmmmm very odd ! |
Pitviper
Username: Pitviper
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 6:34 pm: | |
What he is saying Finger if you don't completely understand is, Ibanez never made guitars and represented them as the real McCoy. Most like me do not have a problem with copies as long as they don't attempt to pass them off as the real thing and deceive anyone.
You don't have to be there when they are being made to know that. |
Fingersmcoy
Username: Fingersmcoy
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, December 02, 2006 - 8:53 pm: | |
What is the pourpose of making a copy if your not trying to pass it off in one way or the other as the real mccoy, to someone,for one reason or another, who will say WOW! look at that les paul- ill buy it- maybe its just as good as the real thing!I think you missed business class 101 son. but you seem like a cool cat so ill be nice.I have a hard time believing that it wasnt a pure money making sceam to increase sales ,Hellllllllo!And for all intents and purposes i could care less. We all do what we have to to make money,weather its selling widgetts or selling your body,or your soul for that matter.Making a copy of something is- all about making a profit off someone else ideas.I really dont want to hear how innocent the whole copying issue is,Im not that biased as to any one guitar maker as to be hoodwinked ! If you go back in history and look at the ideas that were copied from the U.S. by other countries, you will see this is not an uncommon trend.I hear the kings tele. ringing))))))he must defend the Queen! |
Jchester
Username: Jchester
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 1:32 am: | |
look at that les paul- ill buy it- maybe its just as good as the real thing!
Copying designs & counterfitting are separate issues.
The difference is that these a$$#0Le$ are claiming that it is the real thing.
Ibanez may have been guilty of profiting on someone else's designs, but at least they ALWAYS put their own name on the headstock and, therefore, were not swindling the customers, as these counterfitters are. |
Mr_roadstar
Username: Mr_roadstar
Registered: 06-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 3:45 pm: | |
Yeah, I was there when the marketing folks at Hoshino decided to duplicate the design of the Gibson Les Paul. I told 'em not to.
For the record, I loath the Les Paul design regardless of who built the damned thing.
The Bear |
Fingersmcoy
Username: Fingersmcoy
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 7:04 pm: | |
Well im not a big fan of the les paul design either. But i think the Ibanez Artist Professional is one beautiful guitar, even though its a les paul design.Im fickle what can i say! |
Fingersmcoy
Username: Fingersmcoy
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 7:09 pm: | |
Chester- Ibanez has not ALLWAYS put their name on their guitars.TKO next !This too easy!!  |
Mr_roadstar
Username: Mr_roadstar
Registered: 06-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 7:39 pm: | |
Alright Mr. Smartypants, I'll play yer silly game. What did Ibanez build with a different name on the headstock?
Caution: It's a trick question...
The Bear |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 7:55 pm: | |
bristling with pitfalls...
or actually one big pitfall...
Ginger |
Fingersmcoy
Username: Fingersmcoy
Registered: 10-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 10:32 pm: | |
I will have to consult the great googly moogly to see if he accepts trick questions.Pattern Pending! |
Johns
Username: Johns
Registered: 02-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, December 03, 2006 - 11:03 pm: | |
Fingers:
I don't understand what you mean by this statement:
"i think the Ibanez Artist Professional is one beautiful guitar, even though its a les paul design." Exactly which Artist model are you referring to and how is it a "Les Paul" design?
I also don't understand your response on Dec. 02 at 4:46. Do you really not understand the technical and legal differences between counterfieting/forgery and creating replicas/derivative that are stated to be such? |
Pitviper
Username: Pitviper
Registered: 08-2005
| | Posted on Monday, December 04, 2006 - 3:44 am: | |
Imo, he's just being technical...obviously early Ibanez designs copied many "famous" makers. The name on the headstock matters not, it's the act of copying a design that's the issue.
Semantics is all...counterfeiting/forgery means the same as replicas’/derivative because it all involves taking something original that is not yours and using the design as a template.
The primary issue of how you market/promote the final product, including whatever name that's used, is what matters. We(I) do not regard replicas’/derivatives to be infringing upon anything relating to the originals. Emulation is after all, the greatest compliment.
It's actually a complement to the original and allows some people of limited means the option to own something that can reproduce and/or equal its original counterpart and in some instances...exceed it. We all know what it is...but more importantly...we all know what it is not.
Counterfeiting/forgeries on the other hand...are a different story, and are looked at as the devil. (To me anyway)
Like we said fingers...we don't have problems with copying...just don't present it as something that it's not...real.
This board revolves around this assumption and many eagerly anticipate the banter of new finds, acquisitions, collections and the almost boundless wealth of other interesting things associated with them.
To stay focused on perceptions and semantics’ is moot around here...it is what it is...nothing more...nothing less. |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Monday, December 04, 2006 - 7:56 am: | |
The difference between copying and faking explained in car terms:
Daimler invented the automobile with 4 wheels and a combustion engine.
Henry Ford also made vehicles with 4 wheels and a combustion engine and mass produced it.
Did he copy? Oh yes, all basic principles.
Did he put the name Daimler, Daimler-Benz, or Mercedes-Benz on it? No, because that would be a fake.
Legally there is nothing wrong with owning a Ford, but there is a problem when Ford put the name of an other manufacturer on it without a licence.
Oh Lord, won't you give me...
Ginger |
Ibanezfreak1960
Username: Ibanezfreak1960
Registered: 03-2004
| | Posted on Monday, December 04, 2006 - 8:50 am: | |
Steve's question does have an answer thats tricky. If you don't mind me saying the answer is nothing.
Fingers can you tell us why that is? |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 05, 2006 - 7:58 am: | |
Take a closer look at the VERBS in Steve's question... |
Mrblanche
Username: Mrblanche
Registered: 01-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2006 - 7:56 am: | |
By the way, the Chinese have taken several cars from around the world, disassembled them, and virtually exact copies but with their own names on them. Of course, the technology of those cars is nowhere close to the originals, and they leave little things out, like the door reinforcing, etc. |
Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier
Registered: 05-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, December 07, 2006 - 10:19 pm: | |
There a 9 million bicycles in Bejing...
Now I hear some have a roof...
Ginger |