John McLaughlin and the Rex Bogue Dou...

Log Out | Topics | Search Moderators | Edit Profile

Author Message Guitarman (Guitarman) Posted on Saturday, May 31, 2003 - 12:17 am:    Hi all, I was surfing for some John McLaughlin info and came upon an interesting website of him. When I first discover his music in the mid-late 70s and finally get to see him in the early 80s, he was already very much out of the Mahavishnu phase. Nevertheless, I saw him twice - once with the famous guitar trio and the other with him on Spanish guitar and an electric band. I had always wonder what it was like to see him in his Mahavishnu days and for those of you that feels the same...The following site has a bunch of "Full length" videos dating back to those days and get this - even of him using the Rex Bogue Double Rainbow guitar that the Ibanez Artwood Twin model after! Unfortunately, the video quality isn't very good. However, it's still interesting to see a little bit of history of one of the most influential guitarist of the modern time. http://www.angelfire.com/jazz/jmweb/ There is a video of him jamming with Santana and good Lord - When Santana is showing his age, McLaughlin plays better, cleaner, faster and more creative than he ever did! This man is now 60 yrs of age!!! Absolutely unbelievable! Enjoy, Victor Guitarman (Guitarman) Posted on Saturday, May 31, 2003 - 12:34 pm:    Thought I post a pic of the Rex Bogue Double Rainbow for those who haven't seen it before. Raceboy (Raceboy) Posted on Sunday, June 01, 2003 - 2:50 am:    I got to see the Mahavishnu Orchestra. I also saw John and Carlos together when they were touring. It was a hell of a show back then. John might have been the first shredder.;) Guitarman (Guitarman) Posted on Sunday, June 01, 2003 - 4:41 am:    Bob, My goodness! You have to tell me more about this. Coincidentally, I was actually going to ask if you had seen him before in the MO days... Anyway, do you recall him using this guitar? I read somewhere that they were a very loud band. Excuse my ignorance but don't quite know what you mean when you said "...shredder". Cheers, Vic Funkle (Funkle) Posted on Sunday, June 01, 2003 - 1:06 pm:    Guitarman, Great find. I spent some time downloading and watching those videos. The intensity of the music at that time, and particularly that band was amazing. I Never saw them, I discovered Mahavishnu and fusion in my late high school days in the early '80s. I've been really into fusion again lately - the old stuff and some of the new stuff. Regarding the volume, I don't know about Mahavishnu, but I have heard that a lot of those bands played VERY loud. I was reading an interesting article about Bill Connors and his days with Chic Corea's Return to Forever. He was using a 200 watt marshal, and it was barely audible in the mix at live performances. He is deaf in one ear as a result of those days. By "shredder", I think Raceboy means an electric guitarist who's technique focuses on speed. The term came from the '80s speed metal guys that still seem to inhabit Guitar Center to this day I suppose McLaughlin may have been the first. I know that a lot of those guys came out around the same time - it was sort of an explosion - all these jazz guys "turning on and turning up". DiMeola, Abercrombie, Connors, etc. And of course there was Holdsworth and his mindblowing work with Tony Williams Lifetime. -Sven Tim_Gueguen (Tim_Gueguen) Posted on Sunday, June 01, 2003 - 6:13 pm:    The Double Rainbow is unfortunately long dead, having fallen off a bench sometime in 1974 and breaking beyond repair. Rex Bogue passed away in 1996 of diabetes related problems. Guitarman (Guitarman) Posted on Sunday, June 01, 2003 - 6:15 pm:    Hi Sven, So that's what Shredder means. Makes sense. I remember reading an article of McLaughlin during is hayday as being the fastest gun in the West. You know something? He is truly one of the few guys that I can say improves with age in his playing. Although I am not very much into him these days, he still way up there as one of my favourites. It's funny you mention about getting back to Fusion because I am too!!! Will be meeting a bassist tonight to talk it over. Bill Connors and his 200W Marshall? The only other person I know of using that setup is Ritchie Blackmore! And Allan Holdsworth - I totally agree with you. I had seen him four times in the 80s. Arguably, truly one of the most original and phenomenal guitarist of all time (I am expecting and welcoming contradicting response here). His outrageous techniques has prompted Canadian rocker Frank Marino of Mahagony Rush to say - after hearing Allan Holdsworth, what's the point of even trying to play technical anymore. I thought that was hilarious! Vic Raceboy (Raceboy) Posted on Monday, June 02, 2003 - 8:53 am:    I don't recall John playing the double neck when I saw them. That doesn't mean he didn't though. You have to keep in mind that it WAS the 60's.LOL The shredder descriptions offered here are correct. It was an awesome sight (and sound) to watch Carlos and John go at it onstage. Loud seemed to have been some kind of requirement back then. I remember seeing Lee Michaels and Dusty at Fillmore back then. Loudest band I've ever heard, and it was only Lee on a Hammond B3 with a wall of Marshalls behind him, and Dusty on drums. Alvin Lee of Ten Years After (I think that's right) was also one of the first shredders. What an egotist he was. He's still the only guitarist I can recall having a guitar duel with himself.LOL Funkle (Funkle) Posted on Monday, June 02, 2003 - 3:42 pm:    Regarding Holdsworth: I don't like to apply superlatives like "best" or even "fastest" to musicians, because it's so subjective, but Holdsworth was certainly one of the most innovative and mind-blowing players out there - he redefined the instrument. The bill connors articles are a very interesting read. I never knew much about the guy, or why he disappeared. Here's the page: http://scotters.users2.50megs.com/bil.htm A few fusion sites: http://www.eer-music.com/Fusion.html http://www.fusemag.com/ Fusion Radio! http://www.attentionspanradio.net/ Guitarman (Guitarman) Posted on Tuesday, June 03, 2003 - 4:46 pm:    Sven, Thanks for all the links - they are very useful indeed. About fusion radio, have you ever try http://www.winamp.com ? They also have quite a huge selection of music but you need to download the winamp player first which is free by the way. Another guitarist that is really interesting to listen to Tuck Andress. He is not fusion but follows in the footsteps of guitarists that plays solo but sounded like more than one guy playing. He is worth checking out. Simply amazing. Vic Funkle (Funkle) Posted on Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 3:05 pm:    Vic, How did the interview with the bassist go? I've heard Tuck Andres, he's very good. I've been enjoying a lot of the recent releases on the Tone Center label - Henderson/Wooten/Smith, Gambale/Hamm/Smith, CAB, Garsed/Helmerich etc. I also enjoy Shawn Lane's work with Jeff Sipe and Jonas Hellborg (former McLaughlin Bassist) - check out the album "Personae". It's nice to see that fusion is getting back to it's 70s roots again. There are some pretty talented "fusion" players on the Jam band scene as well, like Fareed Haque and Trey Anistasio to name a few. -Sven Guitarman (Guitarman) Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 12:11 am:    Not too bad with the meeting Sven, but I am not sure if he is really into fusion like I thought he was. It's a bit too overwheming for him, I think. You know, I haven't really follow fusion for so long that the names you mentioned above are totally foreign to me except for Gambale and Smith. I really have to check those guys out. Thanks. How about you? Getting a band together soon? Vic Guitarman (Guitarman) Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 12:19 am:    Raceboy, Perhaps this picture will refresh your memory whether he was using the Rex Bogue or not while touring with Santana. By the way, what ever happen to Alvin Lee I wonder? Vic Paddy_F (Paddy_F) Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 7:12 am:    Vic, I think Alvin lives in spain, he has a web site, (not well maitained). He originally comes from Nottingham, my home town. In the early to mid sixties he had a three piece band called the "Jaybirds", with Leo on bass, and a great swing drummer called Clancy, (later replaced by Rick). The music was akin to american rock and roll, and he played with a finger style very similar to Chet Atkins, although he was already working on his pentotonic speed thing. I was playing in a blues band at the time and played loads of local gigs with Alvin, (real name Grayham),--- our keyboard player was Chic Churchill, who later joined Alvins mob, when they were backing the Ivy league, then they got a manager changed their name to ten years after, and the rest is history. About fifteen years ago I was on a ferry to spain on a motor cycling holiday, and somebody called me by name, I looked round at load of black curly hair with a nose poking out of it, which turned out to be Chic Churchill. He told me that they got together for the odd gig. Incidentally Alvins famous 335 belonged to the other guitarist in my band, he sold it to Alvin for around £100. regards Paddy. Johns (Johns) Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 9:56 am:    Thanks for all the pictures and links to the Rex Bogue doubleneck. It's been a real eye opener to me. Although I can see the inspiration for the 2670 Artwood Twin, I see enough difference to be happy that Ibanez didn't simply fall back on their "replica" mentality. To me, it looks like they blended the Bob Weir body (with obivious geman carve edges) into the configuration of the Rex Bogue. The Bogue's thick body with squarish edges, seems more LPish. I see something like this shape in the Yamaha SG, that Carlos played, later. Johns (Johns) Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 9:58 am:    Oh, and the headstocks are nothing like the Artwood Twin, Bob Weir and Scruggs. That's a plus for Ibanezes designers, I think. I'd love to find out more about the designer of those Professionals. Love to shake his hand and ask tons of questions. Funkle (Funkle) Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 11:28 am:    It was interesting watching that Mahavishnu video where John plays the twin. I have always thought those double necks were interesting beasts, but I could never imagine how one would be used in a modern context - I think 12 string, I think folk. It was really cool to see him playing those 12 string parts. When I heard the recording previously, I always assumed it was an octave effects box he was using. -Sven Paddy_F (Paddy_F) Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 6:49 pm:    I found this on the net, Rex certainly influenced Ibanez, especially the vine of life (which he had been previously inspired by, from other sources). John McLaughlin & Rex Bogue Creating the 'Double Rainbow' By Leonard Ferris (Reprinted from Guitar Player magazine: May 1974) The word was out, "McLaughlin's got a new guitar!" It obviously wasn't the familiar Gibson double-neck. In fact, it wasn't a familiar anything. But its beauty and sound were turning heads wherever Mahavishnu John McLaughlin performed. Rex Bogue of San Gabriel, California is the luthier who created the breathtakingly beautiful guitar. "I brought McLaughlin one of my other guitars when he was at the Whisky," Bogue recalls. "He looked it over, then tried it and asked me to build him a new double-neck. It was as simple as that." The decision may have been simple, but the construction of this "Double Rainbow" was anything but easy. The project pulled Bogue away from all other guitar construction for exactly one year, July 18, 1972 to July I 8, 1973. Bogue says, "Building a double-neck takes about two-and-a-half times as much effort as a standard guitar." The inlay work alone took more than eighty hours, cutting meticulously with carbide dental drills and hairline jeweler's saws. The three-way matched body was handcarved from the finest available aged eastern fiddleback maple. Mirror-image symmetry formed the basic design concept for the matching of woods as well as the pairing of the inlaid fingerboard design. The nine-piece laminated necks are constructed from Brazillian rosewood and maple, while the fingerboards, at McLaughlin's request, are Gaboon ebony instead of rosewood. There are two truss rods in the 12-string neck and one in the six. To place the frets with precision on the 24-3/4 inch scale fingerboards, Bogue turned to a friend who wrote a computer program at U.C.L.A. for each fret position at various lengths. And when the placements were established, a special jig was built to saw the fret slots. The elaborate matching inlay on the fingerboards is perhaps the guitar's most striking visual effect, with its various colored abalone leaves and flowers for position markers. "McLaughlin and I discussed the design," Bogue says, "but he gave me a free hand. I'd say I was primarily inspired by the banjo inlay work of the late S. S. Stewart, and by the art of [Frenchart noveau painter] Alphonse Mucha." To Bogue, the flowing mother-of-pearl vines represent the musician's "tree of life," symbolizing his progress in striving to achieve his ideals. Similar philosophical considerations led McLaughlin to want the words "Guru Alo" inscribed at the base of the fingerboards. They mean "He who leads from darkness into lightness." There were a few other special requests McLaughlin had, though he did leave most of the artistic decisions to Bogue. "He wanted the neck to go to high D instead of C#," according to Rex. "And he asked for Gibson-style humbucking pickups." Bogue rewound each pick-up, adding coil divider taps, inter-coil phasing and adjustable quad-coil phasing. He used some Gibson parts, others were specially machined. The output signals of the four pickups are routed to a switching network and then to a hybrid integrated circuit pre-amp. The luthier framed the pickups in rosewood, then glued the units to the back of the body. He claims, "That way, they're not adjustable at all. That's so no repairman can mess with them. My guitars come with lifetime guarantees, so if anything goes wrong I'll travel to the musician and fix things free for as long as I Iive." The instrument has various volume, bass, and treble controls, a power bypass switch, and more. The bypass switch gives the output signal a variable 20 db boost or the standard output. A built-in integrated circuit pre-amp provides for a higher signal-to-noise ratio and increased frequency response, and allows the guitar an enormous amount of gain and sustain. An extra side effect can be created by the sympathetic vibrations produced when one neck is played while the other's pickups are turned off. (McLaughlin plugs his guitar into a volume pedal, a wah-wah, a power booster, and a phase shifter, running it all into two modified 200-watt Marshall tops with four cabinets.) Bogue claims that the guitarist is still experimenting string sets and gauges, but since he "uses the lightest he can find," Bogue installed a Darco custom set ranging from .008 to .038. An interesting problem was created by the fact that Bogue wanted the guitar's two halves to appear virtually identical, but one head had to hold twelve tuning machines while the other would hold six. The solution was found in reversing the position of every other one on the 12-string head so that only six are visible from the front. Custom gold-plated Klusons are utilized on the 12-string, and re-plated (for additional durability) Grover Imperials are used on the 6-string. One would think that all of this plating, inlay, and wood would make the guitar a bit heavy. "A bit!," Bogue exclaims, It's the heaviest guitar I've ever felt. It weighs about thirty pounds; and with the heavy-duty case the total is close to 130." The Double Rainbow, with a value in excess of $5,000, is anything but a traditional guitar-either electronically or artistically. "I approach every guitar as a conceptual art piece," says Bogue, who was with the Ren Ferguson guitar company in Venice, California when the instrument was built. "There are no plastic inlays or other cheap imitations. I hand build every part expressly for each guitar." The current project of Rex Bogue Guitars (125 N. Del Mar, San Gabriel, CA) is an equally valuable double-neck for ex-Weather Report bassist Miraslav Vitous. "It'll look a lot like McLaughlin's instrument," Rex explains, "but with a 4-string bass and 6-string guitar. Each string will have its own transducer for bass and treble, making a total of twenty pickups." So it's clear that there's a design revolution brewing, and Rex Bogue is right in the middle of it. Guitarman (Guitarman) Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 6:54 pm:    Paddy, What an interesting story! Looks like you have been in the music world for quite some time too and have rub shoulders with one of the big guns of Woodstock. I hope you have pics of those time. Hard to believe but...Alvin Lee - finger picking style guitar??? JohnS, You're right about the original headstock of the Ibanez. In fact, it is the thing that really got my attention more than anything on the Professional series. One of the nice feature of the Rex Bogue is the carvings in the middle of the body near the end - behind/between the two stoptails. And a very interesting slotted head for the 12 string with the pole pieces alternating front and back of the headstock so you only see six of it on the front. Sven, Funny, I thought the same too when I first heard him solo on the 12 string. I thought it was an octave unit. And was very surprise when I saw that he was actually soloing on the 12 string. Cheers all, Vic Paddy_F (Paddy_F) Posted on Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 8:00 pm:    Vic, Alvin was a better finger picker than shredder. If I really had nail it down, his style in those days also had a hint of Scotty Moore,-- he was also a "big " Little Richard fan. I personally dont have any pics, but the drummer in the band at that time had the foresight to keep photos, Im still in touch with him so if theres anything relevant Ill post it. Paddy. Raceboy (Raceboy) Posted on Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 6:54 am:    That pic jogged my memory, Vic. Thanks!!! Rhythmcat (Rhythmcat) Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 11:57 am:    I new 'ol Rex and watched him work a few times, went to his pad in San Gabriel and could not believe the conditions he lived in! I saw him work on my friends Fender bass which neck needed straightening, as he put it up on the counter and was bending it with his knee! My friend gasped in horror and Rex said, "don't worry man if it breaks I'll make another one for you", he was a harsh hippy with a 'lil chip on his shoulder, this was the late 1970's and I believe he was indeed bitter, I just wish I commisioned him to make me a guitar, then he was asking about $500 from me to do one. Actually when he was hard up for cash he was asking for about $300! Rhythmcat (Rhythmcat) Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 12:23 pm:    These were just basic Les Paulish guitars he was quoting for me with no exotic binding or carving requests, he must have had a basic model which were pre fabricated, I saw about 10 of them ready to be done. Johns (Johns) Posted on Monday, June 09, 2003 - 3:46 pm:    Rhytmcat: Cool story! Why was Rex bitter? Paddy_F (Paddy_F) Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 8:31 am:    Update on Ten years After, theyre back together again minus Alvin, one of either Rick or Leo's kids friends is now on gitfiddle, theyre doing some sort of small tour venues in the U.K. Rhythmcat (Rhythmcat) Posted on Thursday, June 12, 2003 - 11:07 am:    John, I think he thought he should have been like Benedetto or something like that but he wasn't. I think also he thought Ibanez owed him something. But boy, when he went all out on a guitar they were amazing! Blues (Blues) Posted on Wednesday, February 18, 2004 - 11:22 pm:    I had the pleasure of conversing with the legendary guitarist "John McLaughlin" today via email. I mentioned to John that Ibanez had made a double neck simular to the Rex Bogu e "Double Rainbow" guitar. I also gave John a link to the IBANEZ Collectors World Site "Guitar Tours" so that he could see the Artwood Twin for himself. I don't know if John has visited the site yet. John and I were originally discussing the availability of some vintage Gibson Johnny Smith pickups that I own. In the process I mentioned to John that I also have a Johnny Smith Pickup Assembly made by IBANEZ. The assembly use to belong to "George Benson." Somewhere along the way the assembly had been modified with an extra input jack. I believe George was thinking of running through two amplifiers at the time he was performing with the Ibanez Johnny Smith. John McLaughlin... "I can't believe Ibanez made a copy of the Bogue guitar. If you only knew how many people have asked me about that guitar... I heard recently that Rex passed away last year. Too bad, he really built me a fine instrument." ... that George surely can play. I saw him a few months back playing the Ibanez, and getting a really good sound out of it. He's also one of the nicest people you'd ever want to meet." I asked John about any instruction books/CD's he might have available on the market. John McLaughlin... we're just finishing a series of a box set of 3 DVD's on mastering improvisation. It should be ready around the end of April and I'll for sure keep you updated. Keep up the good work! best wishes, john End of discussion BLUES Sixvsix (Sixvsix) Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 4:46 am:    Nice one Blues! I saw John over here in the UK several years ago with "Shakti" at the Cliffs in Southend. He was as "lightning" fast as ever and looked totally relaxed at the same time. If any of you get a chance to see the Shakti group with John, then go for it. It's well worth it. six Jbstringbender (Jbstringbender) Posted on Thursday, February 19, 2004 - 10:27 pm:    Thanks for the McLaughlin link. When I was in college a neighbor of mine played "My Goals Beyond" and "Love, Devotion and Surrender" for me. I was stunned by both, naturally. Then I heard Mahavishu, and well, had to pick my face up off the floor. So, THANKS for the link to some neat clips from a master. Seems like a really down to earth fellow, too. Gotta love it. . .IRIE, JPB

Add Your Message Here Post: -Color- Black Red Green Blue Yellow Purple Orange Cyan Gray White -Font- Arial Courier Symbol Times Verdana -Size- Smallest (-2) Small (-1) Normal Large (+1) Largest (+2) Enter Item number: Username: Posting Information: This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here. Password: Options: Enable HTML code in message Automatically activate URLs in message Action: