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Author Message Tristan Username: Tristan Registered: 3-2005 Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2007 - 5:37 am:    Today, I packed my AS180 guitar to send it to the guy who won it on ebay. Anyways, as I'm packing the instrument and adding some newspaper pages at the sides, suddenly I see on a wrinkled piece of paper an ad from 4 months ago says a nice jazz old Maya guitar. I decided to give a call and the guy still has it, I went to see what it is, and I was amazed, it was just an Ibanez 2355 1:1 with an open book headstock, instead of Ibanez it states Maya. someone scratched a sticker from the inside, nothing is written on that instrument, but I can feel that it's really nice. The bridge pickup doesn't function here, and I don't really care. It seriously needs a setup and I will do it asap. It has just one little ding at the side, nothing serious. The amazing part was that I payed 200 euros for it! Tristan Username: Tristan Registered: 3-2005 Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2007 - 5:41 am:    oh, the tuners were also replaced to Schallers M6's. Tristan Username: Tristan Registered: 3-2005 Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2007 - 6:00 am:    text description Tristan Username: Tristan Registered: 3-2005 Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2007 - 6:00 am:    oops, here: Hackneyslim Username: Hackneyslim Registered: 2-2006 Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2007 - 6:06 am:    That's gorgeous. How old do you think it is? h Tristan Username: Tristan Registered: 3-2005 Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2007 - 6:08 am:    It's a late seventies model for sure, from the information I managed to gather here, and judging from the binding that has yellowed alot. Talajuha Username: Talajuha Registered: 11-2006 Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2007 - 6:15 am:    One more incarnation of Matsumoku Aria EA-650? http://www.matsumoku.org/models/ariaproii/catalogs /1979b/79ap2b_pg4_page.jpg.html Juha Tristan Username: Tristan Registered: 3-2005 Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2007 - 6:21 am:    No, Maya was a Fujigen.. It's not an Aria, that's an Ibanez.. Talajuha Username: Talajuha Registered: 11-2006 Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2007 - 8:24 am:    Where did you find that Maya-Fujigen-Ibanez connection? Juha Tristan Username: Tristan Registered: 3-2005 Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2007 - 11:13 am:    Well, You can start by having a look on that thread: http://www.ibanezcollectors.com/discus/messages/57 51/5879.html I've read in many other resources also, that Maya is Ibanez, not only, it is also a high end quality Fujigen line. That's why I had a red light when I read that ad about this guitar.. Talajuha Username: Talajuha Registered: 11-2006 Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2007 - 11:32 am:    Yes, there is Maya-Hoshino-Ibanez connection but Maya is not Ibanez. No, there is not Maya-Fujigen connection. Maya may be made by Matsumoku like Electra is? As far as I can compare the pictures of the guitars your Maya is identical to Aria EA-650, except bridges. BTW, have you ever heard of Fenix trademark (Korean made jazzboxes)? Juha Tristan Username: Tristan Registered: 3-2005 Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2007 - 11:41 am:    Yes, ofcourse. BUT, the EA650 IS also identical to a 2355. The headstock of a EA650 is very thin, while this Maya has an open book headstock. Matsumoku has never manufactured guitars for Hoshino. That guitar is identical to a 2355, and is a Fujigen, not an Ibanez, but an Hoshino Fujigen product. clearly. Tristan Username: Tristan Registered: 3-2005 Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2007 - 11:47 am:    I also won what appears to be a pre 2355 Ibanez from '69 or so which seems also nice, for 250 euros, I will have to compare them and decide what to keep. There were only some Electra guitars that were made by Fujigen, but not all of them. and Electra wasn't a Hoshino brand, it was made for Arai. The later Electra models were Matsumoku made. Maya though, as for the past years have been following auctions for these guitars is clearly a Fujigen made. Tristan Username: Tristan Registered: 3-2005 Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2007 - 11:50 am:    Have a look at the subburst one here: (Ibanez 2355) http://members.lycos.nl/ibanez2355site/pics.htm Tristan Username: Tristan Registered: 3-2005 Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2007 - 11:51 am:    That's it, now that's everything proven enough, let's stop with the let's bash Tristan for his good deal thing Talajuha Username: Talajuha Registered: 11-2006 Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2007 - 1:55 pm:    Hm, only proof that Maya is made by Fujigen is that you wish it is. Other manufacturers have made high end guitars, too, even Matsumoku, and probably nobody knows all of who made what to whom in 60s and early 70s. If you think you have got good jazzboxes (for playing) at good price, congratulations. Who cares who made them. Anyway I tried to discuss guitars and manufacturers to know better what I am dealing with on the market. You are the one who brags his good businesses here. I have not lost any money because of them, and will not, and I have no reason to bash your deals. Juha Tristan Username: Tristan Registered: 3-2005 Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2007 - 2:26 pm:    Well, I didn't brag. I just a bit showed it off ;) I try to get those jazz boxes for a nice price for a year maybe, and suddenly I get 3. That's too good to be true for me.. and anyways, while I "decided" that it's a Fujigen, you claimed that no matter what, it's not. Anyways, take a look at that Maya that belonged to Blues: http://www.ibanezcollectors.com/discus/messages/13 /5166.html Munch Username: Munch Registered: 2-2001 Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2007 - 8:05 pm:    Hi Tristan, I would concur that you have an FugiGen guitar. In Australia the Maya brand was fairly prevalent in the mid '70s and I haven't ever seen one that does not have an identical Ibanez cousin. Cheers, Mark Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Sunday, February 25, 2007 - 8:13 pm:    My ex-brother-in-law had a very high quality Les Paul Custom Black Beauty set neck lawsuit model by the name of "EL MAYA", which was their high end range. They were so good, that they write about it in the Gibson article of the Wikipedia. The article says, they had their own factory in KOBE and we know Ibanez had not. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibson_Guitar_Corpora tion Then I found something Bassassin wrote last week on bassworld, in which he mentions the name ROKKOMAN as the factory who built under the MAYA and EL MAYA label. http://www.bassworld.co.uk/pn/index.php?name=PNphp BB2&file=viewtopic&p=232308 But in this post of docpear of December 26th 2005, I found information that Maya (or Rokkoman) is a trading company just like Hoshino. This would mean, they could have ordered instruments anywhere. http://www.ezfolk.com/forums/forum16/762.html I take this information quite seriously because it comes from David Gartland from Saga Musical Instruments, not from a layman. I think, when a specific Maya guitar looks, feels (neck) and sounds like an Ibanez model it must come from the same factory. It was also the most economical way to order: from the factory which had already a production line for that particular model for other trading companies. You'd be nuts to ask from another factory to set up a seperate production line in Matsumoku, while there is one available in Kobe (or the other way 'round)... Way to expensive! That why I find the early one with the ZERO-fret so interesting. It might indicate either a production move or a technical development within the same factory. It would really help if we could contact old employees while their still alive. Perhaps through Japanese members like Hasenobu or through Jim Donahue. If the gramps of Japanese lutherie all have died, the knowledge will be gone if it's not documented! Ginger Tristan Username: Tristan Registered: 3-2005 Posted on Monday, February 26, 2007 - 1:22 am:    To the best of my understanding and from some heavy online research, El Maya and Maya were the same, while they're might not be Hoshino as you say Gemberbier, they are most definatly a Fujigen, that's why I went to buy it like a bolt of lightning. Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Monday, February 26, 2007 - 8:51 pm:    Hmmm... like Gibson and The Gibson? Possible... It is most likely that the Maya guitars that look and feel like Fuji Gen are indeed Fuji Gen, but it is possible Rokkoman hired other guitar factories for other models as well. Matsumoku would have been a good choice too. I think it's not so black or white as some people think. Trading companies are opportunists. Ginger Talajuha Username: Talajuha Registered: 11-2006 Posted on Tuesday, February 27, 2007 - 5:57 pm:    Here is an other Maya, I was told. Does it look like any Ibanez LP replica? Juha Tristan Username: Tristan Registered: 3-2005 Posted on Wednesday, February 28, 2007 - 1:34 am:    I saw it on marktplaats.nl, the guy agreed to sell it for 150 euro. I'm not sure about your question here though. That looks just like any other LP replica, I didn't think about it, but the headstock inlay wasn't seen on an Ibanez, for sure. The one here, http://www.ibanezcollectors.com/discus/messages/17 /16651.html also has an headstock inlay that wasn't on any Ibanez. I don't know.. Bassassin Username: Bassassin Registered: 1-2006 Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 7:06 am:    Juha - was that Maya LP from Ebay UK? There was a guy selling an identical one (unbranded, he'd bought it as a Maya years ago) a couple of weeks back. These look to me very like the budget copies which were sold in the UK as Columbus, Saxon, Avon etc featuring the same very small inlay, ply body & neckplate stamped on the top half, and quite likely single coil "humbuckers". Some web searching produced some images of branded Maya LPs with that inlay too - so it's persuasive to think the brands mentioned above might at least have been sourced through Rokkoman. ...Although I have an Avon Gibson Marauder copy which appears identical in every detail to a Cimar-branded on which appeared on Ebay a onth or two ago. And Cimar was a Hoshino brand. So maybe it's Fuji Gen... This is slowly driving me mad... Jon. Talajuha Username: Talajuha Registered: 11-2006 Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 10:26 am:    It is FS at Finnish auction site http://www.huuto.net/fi/showitem.php3?itemid=48446 839 more pics: http://www.telemail.fi/deluxe/maya/ Seems it has lived a hard life. (E.g. changed tuners!!!) Needs refinishing and other repairs? Then there is an El Maya LP without electronics http://www.huuto.net/fi/showitem.php3?itemid=48000 213 Click the picture to enlarge. Could be good start for a builder? BWT, an other rare brand, Shiro, jazzbox didn't sel at 440€, I am considering how much to offer. And there is "Fenix" jazzbox FS (370€), too. Juha Talajuha Username: Talajuha Registered: 11-2006 Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 10:32 am:    BTW BTW, Jon, has your email something to do with these guitars? Juha Bassassin Username: Bassassin Registered: 1-2006 Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 12:52 pm:    No - I didn't know about them. Thanks for linking the pics, though - very intetesting. The black Maya, as far as I can tell looks identical to the Columbus LP I owned in the 80s (and it was a good few years old when I got it), so I'm more & more inclined to think Maya/Rokkoman supplied some of the UK rebrands. That El Maya would be a good project - but finding matching pearloid blanks for the missing inlays would be a challenge! Do you know if it's a set neck? J. Talajuha Username: Talajuha Registered: 11-2006 Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 1:24 pm:    El Maya is set neck, holes for the inlays, frets need some work, not refret. Somebody had asked the seller. Current bid €82.- Maya's current bid €87.- Juha Gemberbier Username: Gemberbier Registered: 5-2006 Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 3:55 pm:    Last week I have seen PROOF that EL MAYA was indeed built in KOBE (close-up picture of the headstock of an El-Maya EM1100 but the picture was protected so I couldn't copy it), while the Matsumoku factories where in Matsumoto (see Wikipedia). So there was at least an era in which EL MAYA was NOT built by Matsumoku in Matsumoto, but in a certain factory in KOBE (where also Yamaha Music Kobe Co. is, so it's obviously an important place for the Japanese musical instrument industry). But on my search I found A LOT of the usual bullsh.. on several forums like "Mayas were built by Hoshino Gakki blabla..." And as we know, Hoshino BUILT NOTHING, they SOLD! So be careful and very selective, because the web is poisoned with false information! Ginger Talajuha Username: Talajuha Registered: 11-2006 Posted on Friday, March 02, 2007 - 5:35 pm:    Yeah, especially in ads you can see some sellers trying to list any celebrity name they know and any kind of connection to famous brands. On the other hand if you are too suspicious you may let a good (player's) guitar go. One problem is that you get what you bought on your hands after paying for it. If the prices of these Maya and El Maya don't go too high I consider bidding and having a couple of projects for my retirement. Juha

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