Other brands made by Ibanez Log Out | Topics | Search
Moderators | Edit Profile

Ibanez Collectors World » Captain Ibanez - Defender of Truth! » Other brands made by Ibanez « Previous Next »

Author Message
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Peter P
Posted on Thursday, February 05, 2004 - 4:37 am:   

Hi Cap'n!

Just wondering if you could fill me in on other brands which came from the Ibanez factory. I understand Greco was one, but am unsure of any others. The reason I ask is I met a guy willing to sell what he tells me is a guitar made by Ibanez, with the name 'Camora' on the headstock. He then went on to tell me it was made in Korea which seemed wierd, as I thought Ibanez were only in Japan. Seems he's either trying to dupe me, or has no idea what he's talking about (or maybe he does and I don't). Anyways, it's a Les Paul custom copy, and he wants AUD$300.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Captainibanez (Captainibanez)
Posted on Thursday, February 05, 2004 - 6:49 am:   

G'day Peter, Camora, is not a brand that I'm personally familiar with here in Australia made by Ibanez under that brand. If you would like to go to www.ibanez-vintage-page.de

My good mate's Harry & Hasy, who I solve all the english language questions for, have a list of the brands that Ibanez used to make copies for. Take some time and search the site, you will find the truth behind what some one may be trying to dupe you into. As far as copy series go here in Australia, brands that spring to mind are...Gonzales, Jason and Ansom was the Korean brand made by Ibanez in the 70's for Australia.

Captain Ibanez:)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fox (Fox)
Posted on Thursday, February 05, 2004 - 11:57 am:   

Hello Peter
I have some info about Ibanezes related trademarks:
RELATED TRADEMARKS - IBANEZ (Hoshino Co.Japan)
Isonez, Kasuga, Luxor, Halifax, Cimar, Maya, Morris, Global, Sekova, Polaris for European Market

Antoria (CSI) England Distributor

Greco for Japanese Market
MANN for Canadian Market
Jason for the Australian Market
Penco, Elger, Univox for the US Market

Aria and Electra are from Matsumoku, not affiliated with Hoshino...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mr_Roadstar (Mr_Roadstar)
Posted on Thursday, February 05, 2004 - 1:35 pm:   

Thanx, Fox! That's the most comprehensive list I've seen, yet.

Here's some related things to ponder:

"Ibanez" is a brand name owned by Hoshino.
"Ibanez" never built a guitar.
Hoshino contracts with manufacturers (like Fuji Gen Gakki) to build guitars with the "Ibanez" name on them.

I know it's just semantics. Most of us here are aware of this. I wish the rest of the world would get a clue! I'm getting real tired of seeing "Greco by Ibanez", or "Electra by Ibanez" on eBay...

That's like saying "Pontiac by Chevrolet".

And...

Production Ferrari's are built by Fiat. Have been since the 70's. Depressing, eh?

Cheers
Steve
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Spiro (Spiro)
Posted on Thursday, February 05, 2004 - 2:46 pm:   

good on ya Mr Roadstar. Ibanez is just a "shelf Company" And Fujigen are company in their own right.. Who Also Make OEM for Yamaha, Fender and Now the Epiphone Elitist...

The brand name you must be talking about is Canora not camora this is a cheapy brand MIJ but now Korean also known as Elite, Ardelsy, Emperador or tele Star.. Made by one of those generric manufacturers during the 60's and 70's

Dont know much more about them..

check this link out when you guys get a chance

http://www.fujigen.co.jp
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Peter P
Posted on Friday, February 06, 2004 - 9:31 am:   

Thanks for the info guys, most helpful indeed! Maybe you can help with another query; Whilst continuing my quest to add another vintage Ibanez to the collection (using the term 'collection' rather loosely - currently stands at one guitar), I saw an (alleged) Ibanez in Newtown (Vintage something the shop's called). Had a quick look at the catalogues at http://www.ibanez-vintage-page.de/, but couldn't find it. It's sort of a Les Paul shape but slightly larger, solidbody and setneck, black in colour. It also had some similarities to an SG, flat (not carved) top, the scratch plate screws flush on the body (but doesn't surround the pickups like a standard SG). The thickness of the body seemed to be somewhere in between Les Paul and SG. The headstock is open book shape, but the top doesn't flare out as far as other Ibanezes that I've seen, and there is no name whatsoever (I didn't notice any trace of holes for the old logos that were screwed/nailed on). Does this ring a bell with the Captain or anyone else out there? I think they had about AUD$600 on this one.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Craigjc (Craigjc)
Posted on Friday, February 06, 2004 - 1:04 pm:   

Sounds like an L6-S copy to me (Ibanez 2451).
Could this be it?
2451
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Dave_G (Dave_G)
Posted on Friday, February 06, 2004 - 6:12 pm:   

Those set neck L6-S clones are AWESOME..the pups are amazing and the vari tone switch really lends to a versitile guitar. These are a VERY CLOSE replica of the Gibson. I own two Ibanez and a Gibson-short of the string thru feature on the Gibby, these guitars are identical ! Very high build quality...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Midian (Midian)
Posted on Friday, February 06, 2004 - 8:17 pm:   

Funny...I have an L6S...never knew Ibanez made a clone!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Peter P
Posted on Friday, February 06, 2004 - 9:52 pm:   

Unbelievable, is there anything you guys don't know?! That's the one, difference being colour and also I forgot to mention in my original post that the one I saw has a Bigsy style tremolo (couldn't find this in the catalogues, maybe it was released in '72, for which year I could find no catalogues at www.ibanez-vintage-page.de). Anyway, thanks heaps for the help everybody!
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Captainibanez (Captainibanez)
Posted on Saturday, February 07, 2004 - 5:29 am:   

Peter , the one that you saw with a Bigsby trem is a aftermarket add on. They never made a L6S copy with a Bigsby....why would you ?

the Captain can honestly say back in 1976 this guitar was one of my top 5 guitars to use back then. In later years I bought a Gibson L6S on Saturday morning with a hangover for 300.00 aussie off a mate, I still find that amazing for the Captain to have that much folding after a big friday night after a hard week at the office, needless to say that it was on the market monday morning. It was not even a patch on the Ibanez version...amazing how you can contort your hand to suit a shithouse neck and have confused eardrums with a hangover !

Keep On Rockin'

Captain Ibanez :)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Peter P
Posted on Saturday, February 07, 2004 - 10:59 am:   

Thanks again for the wealth of information. Provided the thing stays in tune with the bigsby, is $600 a bargain/average/overpriced? I didn't have time to play it or check it right out, but it seemed to be in pretty good condition, the only obvious modification (apart from the addition of abovementioned bigsby) that I noticed was the strap button had been relocated from behind the neck to where they sit on a Les Paul. Must be a thing with set-neck Ibanezes, my SG was neck-heavy until I made the same adjustment (moved the button to the top horn).
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

dave_g
Posted on Saturday, February 07, 2004 - 11:52 am:   

Peter, depending on the condition + with/without case, 600 AU ($450 US) is about average ad perhaps a bit on the high side, especially with the mods -but I think that these are currently underpriced and will increase in value (remember the L6S was a commercial faliure as a guitar design for Gibson too) due to the quality build and general increasing interest in Vintage Japanese guitars. Plus you get to play and enjoy while the value goes up !
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jeffp6155 (Jeffp6155)
Posted on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 1:13 am:   

So Greco, Mann and Ibanez are simply different names that were made by Hoshino? Across the spectrum of different brand names made by Hoshino, was the build quality consistent or identical for copies? Were certain brands within the factory low end and others high end?
I've heard "made by Ibanez" about 70's or 80's Carlo Robelli guitars (Sam Ash house brand).
I in fact have an early Robelli 335 copy and it's really nothing more than a likeable cheap guitar...a cut above the department store copies from the late 60's, but nothing like an Ibanez or Palmer 335.
How about Granada for the Canadaian market?
Hoshino/Ibanez or Ebay sales hype?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Jon4bass (Jon4bass)
Posted on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 1:35 pm:   

Hey All,

Maybe the name "Speedfire" needs to be added to the list of Ibanez brands? There's very little info on the 'net about the "Speedfire" brand.

I posted pics of my Speedfire L6S Custom copy in the Replicas forum. Harry thinks (and I agree) that this is a Hoshino product.

This particular copy is of very high build quality with all maple construction and set neck. At 9.0 lbs (4 kg), this guitar is as heavy as some Les Pauls.

Unlike typical humbucker type guitars, my L6S copy and the original, too, I presume :O can be used to play convincing funk guitar parts -- the parallel out-of-phase setting sounds close to a Strat's bridge & middle pickup setting (the Strat's middle pickup is typically reverse wound).

Peace,
Jonathan
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ibnzplyr (Ibnzplyr)
Posted on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 4:02 pm:   

Does anyone know if Ventura was made by Hoshino or by Matsumoku (or someone else?) -- Scott
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ericsson (Ericsson)
Posted on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 4:12 pm:   

I would guess that Ventura is Hoshino for the most part. There are at least two models, the Barney Kessel doublecut archtop and the tow-point mandolin, where Ibanez and Ventura are exactly the same. I have also seen, however, Ventura guitars (Gibson acoustic copies mostly) that looked similar to Ibanez but were much crappier: flimsy, buckling tops, cheaper tuners, and lower grade inlay. So it probably depends on the model.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Tubescorcher (Tubescorcher)
Posted on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 9:45 pm:   

IBZ is made by Hoshino I believe. I have a double neck SG that has IBZ on the head stock.
IBZ


IBZ
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Mr_Roadstar (Mr_Roadstar)
Posted on Sunday, August 15, 2004 - 4:57 pm:   

Ventura is a Matsumoku brand. Contrary to popular opinion, they were not all cheap junk. The Ventura brand spanned the range from entry-level crap to professional. The best known Matsumoku brand is Aria.

http://www.angelfire.com/blues/rockinjohn/ventura/ventura_bruno.html
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Sixvsix (Sixvsix)
Posted on Monday, August 16, 2004 - 2:53 pm:   

Here's a gem:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2384&item=3742614507&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

six
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Steph (Steph)
Posted on Monday, August 16, 2004 - 6:51 pm:   

Even the Black Eagle bass and doubleneck Fender version are in the prospect - all Ibanez revamp. I think there was a 100% alike custom agent with Antoria logo on on ebay.uk last month too. Perhaps an untapped goldmine....
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Damiang (Damiang)
Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 4:50 am:   

Does anyone know anything about the Axiom brand? There's a '76 Axiom Custom Agent being sold on eBay with the claim that it came from the Ibanez factory. Despite my best efforts I haven't been able to ascertain that this is the case.

Cheers, Damian
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fox (Fox)
Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 12:12 pm:   

Again I´ll post this list:

RELATED TRADEMARKS - IBANEZ (Hoshino Co.Japan)
Isonez, Kasuga, Luxor, Halifax, Cimar, Maya, Morris, Global, Sekova, Polaris for European Market

Antoria (CSI) England Distributor

Greco for Japanese Market
MANN for Canadian Market
Jason for the Australian Market
Penco, Elger, Univox for the US Market

Aria and Electra are from Matsumoku, not affiliated with Hoshino...

Hope this will help, if there are other, feel free to add...That IBZ is a new one to me..
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Artfield (Artfield)
Posted on Sunday, October 03, 2004 - 9:48 pm:   

Fox , any info on a brand called "Custom"....they had in the 70ties (gibson and fender)copies who came from Japan, they were very succesful overhere in Netherlands, my first electric guitar was a "Custom" Strat copy.saw alot of models like (teles, strats,335's, L5 model etc etc)very nice guitars but cheap ...

Spiro thats an incredible link man......i like very much the guitar which is on the homepage(the one with the F-holes) ...but can't find it in the catalog or stocklisting...
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Snowjays (Snowjays)
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 4:45 am:   

Fox,

For the Australian market, Ibanez also went under the logos of Cimar, Morris, Kasuga, Axiom, Electa (not Electra).

Jason, as far as I can recall, was a New Zealand company that produced amp, and ventured into guitar manufacture in the 1960's early 70's, but had no connection to Ibanez that I can remember.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Snowjays (Snowjays)
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 6:18 am:   

Sorry,

I've been corrected, Jansen were N.Z.
Jason weren't sold in the northern states.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Fox (Fox)
Posted on Monday, October 04, 2004 - 6:23 am:   

Snowjays, thanks for additional info..I´ll update that list (gathered over Internet, so there can be some mis-info, as seen ´bout Jason...:) )
Artfield, I´ve never see a brand "Custom", but in the 70´s there were truckloads of copy guitars delivered to Europe, other brands I´ve spotted, or worked on, here in "the far north",I recall DIA, Marchis,Marina and Avon to name but a few..guess they might have come from same factories but sold under different names..Those DIA´s were quite low-end, cheapo copies if my memory serves me right. :)
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Padraic (Padraic)
Posted on Tuesday, October 05, 2004 - 3:33 am:   

Hey Fox, that's a handy list :)

I think that you might want to add CSL to your list; Ibanez guitars were imported to the UK by Charles Summerfield Ltd (hence the CSL). These, and Antorias, are quite readily found over here.

Padraic
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Proline
Username: Proline

Registered: 09-2004
Posted on Thursday, November 04, 2004 - 5:52 pm:   

Hi everybody. I've got a LP copy branded Frontier ( Whith a "Fen*er" capital backward f!!). Solid birds eye maple top and set mahogany neck. It has the adjustable tension tuners found on old Ibanezes (Wrench style). Smells Fuji gen. I've been looking over the years but never found another one. No serial number. Stock pickups changed for Dimarzios (Not OEM).
Accurate small gibs*n head.
Anybody heard of a Frontier before??
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Ibanezfreak1960
Username: Ibanezfreak1960

Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Thursday, November 04, 2004 - 10:56 pm:   

How about a pic?
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Patjackson
Username: Patjackson

Registered: 02-2005
Posted on Friday, February 04, 2005 - 1:19 am:   

hello i have a 1974 ibanez tele can any one tell me what it worth light woodgrain in coloe model#3252ct im going to sell for the best price i can get or keep it and play out with it pat jackson arizonabluesman@aol.com waiting for any reply thanks
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Pjgpopiel
Username: Pjgpopiel

Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 8:15 am:   

Hi,
I just purchased a Les paul copy from a dealer in Japan. It's a copy of a White Custom, it has a bolt on neck. The brand name on the headstock is "LEGEND". I normally don't go for bolt on Gibson copies, but I got it for a great price and the shipping from Japan was considerably less expensive than some of the other Japanese dealers. My question ? Have you heard of this brand and if you have, do you, maybe, know the manufacterer. It looks like it could be an Ibanez made guitar. Thanks , Paul
http://www.qksrv.net/click-1802666-10381315?loc=http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI .dll%3FViewItem%26item%3D7397994075
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Hasenobu
Username: Hasenobu

Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Saturday, March 18, 2006 - 8:39 am:   

Paul,

I'm from Japan, and I have heard of the brand "Legend".
I don't think it's related to Ibanez, though I
have no confidence.
All I know about the brand is that Legend guitars
are very cheap, and they are designed mainly for beginners....
Please don't take me wrong, but I wouldn't feel like to try any one of their productions....
If you search "Legend" in Yahoo Japan Auction, you'll
find hundreds of pages selling brandnew Legend guitars
for a very reasonable prices. (I guess almost all of them are 100 US dollars.)
And I believe they are made in Korea or China.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Tuesday, August 01, 2006 - 3:38 pm:   

According to several Dutch and Belgian dealers Legend is related to Aria.
They made nice strats too.

Ginger
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Johns
Username: Johns

Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Tuesday, August 01, 2006 - 6:53 pm:   

Anybody ever heard of Crestwood? I played one that was a dead ringer for an Ibanez Howard Roberts, including star tuners and Ibanez style serial number.

I was tempted to buy it. If it said Ibanez I would have.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 10:14 am:   

John,
July 05, 2002 09:11 am you posted a photograph of a 2405 Custom Agent of the same brand. If there weren't any drilling holes in the headstock perhaps you should have. There are a lot of indications pointing in that direction.

Someone just wrote something about a "Crestline" on Ebay. I couldn't find it, so he probably meant Crestwood. Going to take another look.

Ginger
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Japanguitar
Username: Japanguitar

Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Saturday, May 26, 2007 - 7:34 am:   

There is a lot of confusion about who made what guitars and people often get the actual guitar making factories mixed up with the ordering/distributing companies mainly due to ebay sellers who want to sell a brand hardly anyone has heard of so they say things like Ibanez made this X brand which they just made up to sell the guitar.

Hoshino are a orderer/distributor which means that they order their guitars from a guitar making company such as FujiGen then they distribute the guitars with a brand name which in Hoshino's case is Ibanez.
Some Japanese based ordering/distributing companies are Hoshino, Kanda Shokai and Yamano.
After designing the guitar Hoshino contracts a guitar making factory to make them and then Hoshino distributes the guitars with a Ibanez logo around the world.
Kanda Shokai does a similar thing but it distributes the guitars with a Greco logo in Japan.
Hoshino and Kanda Shokai have no business connection to each other at all.
They are both separate companies and so Ibanez has no connection to Greco at all.
What happened in the 1970's was that Hoshino and Kanda Shokai shared a few guitar designs like the Iceman so there was a Ibanez Iceman distributed throughout the world by Hoshino and there was a Greco Iceman distributed in Japan by Kanda Shokai so a lot of people say that Greco is a Ibanez brand which is totally wrong.
Also Kanda Shokai and Yamano order/distribute the Fender Japan guitars and have done so since 1982.
Hoshino's own brand is Ibanez and Kanda Shokai's own brand is Greco.

There was a guitar boom in Japan in the 1970's and a lot of business people were trying to get in on the act to make money.
Anyone with enough capital could just make up a brand name and set themselves up as a ordering/distributing company.
This happened with the strange brands such as Cimar, Electa, Profile, Gonzales etc,
Cimar could have been distributed by Hoshino but I doubt it as it was more likely to be distributed by one of the unknown distributors the same way Profile, Gonzales etc were.
Out of any boom there are only a few that survive and most of these companies that made the strange brand name guitars bit the dust.
Some of the ones that survived are Hoshino, Kanda Shokai and Yamano and also ESP.
Some of the strange brands such as Cimar, Electa, Profile, Gonzales etc were probably made by the same guitar making factories as the Ibanez's and Grecos.

Japanese Orderers/Distributors
Hoshino, Kanda Shokai and Yamano.
Plus a lot of unknown companies.

Japanese Guitar making Factories
Fuji Gen: made a lot of Ibanez's.
Terada: made a lot of Ibanez's.
Iida: (moved most production to Peerless in Korea which they own in the early 1990's) they made guitars for a lot of brands.
Kasuga: (went out of business in the early 1990's) they made guitars for a lot of brands and had their own brands of Kasuga, Heerby and Ganson which had nothing to do with Ibanez.
Dyna: they made guitars for a lot of brands
Matsumoku: (went out of business in the late 1980's) they made the Aria's and other brands.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Saturday, May 26, 2007 - 4:09 pm:   

Welcome at ICW,

I see you like to dig deep. I think that's good.
But if you had dug a little deeper, you wouldn't have had any doubt about the Cimar brand.

Take a look at page 24 of this catalogue:
http://www.t3-kundenserver.de/htmlpages/redasys/_c ore/databases/t_meinl-uploads/1980_stepahead_meinl .pdf

It clearly states: "Cimar by Ibanez"
This is NOT second hand information, but first hand on official Ibanez documentation.

Personally I'd like to dig a little deeper in the brands Kasuga and Sakai because of two special Telecaster replicas I have. But as you will have noticed already, it's more difficult finding info (certainly first hand info) about these smaller brands than about Ibanez.


Ginger
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Japanguitar
Username: Japanguitar

Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 2:03 am:   

I'm not a Cimar expert so I had to be doubtful about it but thanks for pointing out that it was a Hoshino brand but some of the other brands that have been associated with Hoshino have nothing to do with Hoshino.
Here are some strange brands and who made them.
Joodee made by Dyna and distributed by Daion.
Guyatone made by Guya and distributed by Tokyo sound corp.
Westminster made by Matsumoku and distributed by Kanda Shokai.
Sigma made by Tokai and distributed by Martin.
Stacks of other brands as well and also there were a lot of Japanese Music stores with their own brands as well.
Morris had nothing to do with Ibanez btw.

I know a bit about Kasuga.
They were a guitar making factory.
In the 1970's they made Fender and Gibson copies and had them distributed under the Kasuga, Heerby and Ganson names in the same way that Fuji Gen makes and distibutes it's own brand FGN now.
In the 1980's they were a OEM maker making guitars for a lot of brands like Yamaha, the early Navigators (pre ESP), Ibanez, Fernandes/Burny etc.
When a lot of guitar production moved to Korea and Taiwan in the late 1980's Kasuga went back to making mostly bluegrass instruments and went out of business in the early 1990's.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Sixvsix
Username: Sixvsix

Registered: 3-2002
Posted on Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 5:54 am:   

Hey. That's gotta be the same 'Japanguitar' from the TGRF....

six
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Japanguitar
Username: Japanguitar

Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 8:13 am:   

Maybe the "Cimar by Ibanez" brand is similar to the "Orville by Gibson" brand.
For the "Orville by Gibson" brand Yamano ordered/distributed the guitars under licence from Gibson using Gibson guitar model designs.
Maybe for the "Cimar by Ibanez" brand an unknown orderer/distributer were licenced by Ibanez to use Ibanez designs or were licened to use Ibanez designers to design the Cimar models.
The Cimar models are a bit low end (some with plywood bodies) and Hoshino were already producing low end Ibanez models (I had a late 80's plywood Korean Ibanez) so I don't think Hoshino would have made the Cimars just to cover the low end market and so I can't see much of a reason for Hoshino to make Cimars.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 4:08 pm:   

It's possible that Hoshino wanted to try one or more cheaper manufacturer(s).

If the quality level was lower, this would have damaged the reputation of the Ibanez brand. Under the Cimar B brand it couldn't do much damage. When the cheaper built instruments reached the desired quality level, the manufacturer was ripe to build instruments under the Ibanez A brand.

Compare it to the Korean Fenders. They started as Squiers twenty years ago.

Japanese Squiers (Fuji Gen) needed only 3 years, before their guitars got the Fender label.

The Cimar brand is quite old by the way. It existed already in the pre-lawsuit era. I've seen some nice old open book headstock jazz boxes (ES-175) carrying the Cimar brand.

I don't see any reason for Hoshino to make Cimars either, because making them was not their business. But trying out cheaper manufacturers, by means of using a B brand would fit in their strategy.

The late '80s Korean Ibanez you are referring at is probably made at Yoojin, and if so, it will have a Y------ serial number.

It is possible that Yoojin first was asked to show what they were capable of by making some B brand (Cimar?) guitars in the early '80s.


Ginger
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Snowjays
Username: Snowjays

Registered: 9-2004
Posted on Sunday, May 27, 2007 - 6:38 pm:   

Ibanez itself is still only a brand name and not the manufacturer. The fact still remains that Cimar, like Tallman and Star were labelled "by Ibanez". But Hoshino had it's other brands, and perhaps that's how some were started. Some earlier Cimar guitars didn't have any indication they were associated with Ibanez.
Star guitars have been appearing since the '50, and we're all familiar with Tama guitars.
I'd say that a lot of these brands were experimental marketing ploys which allowed Hoshino to test new products.

Other brand names were associated by factory rather than name, and were independant importers ordering some of their product through Fujigen.
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Japanguitar
Username: Japanguitar

Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 12:08 pm:   

Interesting Worldwide sales figures in US dollars for 2002 comparing Japanese and USA companies.

YAMAHA CORPORATION $4,067,790,000
FENDER MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS $275,000,000
YAMANO MUSIC COMPANY, LTD. $255,000,000 Fender Japan, Epiphone Japan
GIBSON GUITAR CORP. $125,000,000
HOSHINO GAKKI MFG. CO., LTD. $119,000,000 Ibanez, Tama
KANDA SHOKAI CORPORATION $48,000,000 Fender Japan, Greco, Zemaitis
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 6:05 pm:   

Wow, Yamaha is big, but of course it's not just a guitar company. They make keyboards, pianos, recorders, chips, etc. You find the 3 tuning forks even on motors, like in the left upper corner:

http://www.yamaha-motor.nl/products/marine/

It surprises me that in 2002 Hoshino Gakki had a smaller turnover than the Gibson Guitar Corp., which doesn't sell drums.

Ginger
Top of pagePrevious messageNext messageBottom of page Link to this message

Japanguitar
Username: Japanguitar

Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Thursday, May 31, 2007 - 9:54 am:   

Found some more guitar factories and various brands they have made.
Sometimes the guitar factory would have the guitars distributed using the guitar factory name like Morris, Kasuga etc.

Matsumoku (Aria, Westone)
Chushin (Jackson, Azumi),
Morris (Morris, Bill Lawrence, H.S.Anderson)
ESP (Navigator, Zep-II, Edwards)
Kasuga (Ganson, Heerby, Kasuga)

Add Your Message Here
Post:
Bold text Italics Underline Create a hyperlink Insert a clipart image

Username: Posting Information:
This is a private posting area. Only registered users and moderators may post messages here.
Password:
Options: Enable HTML code in message
Automatically activate URLs in message
Action:




Thank you for supporting Ibanez Collectors Forum. Please help your favorite Ibanez guitar site as we endeavor to bring you the latest information about Ibanez custom vintage electric and acoustic guitars. Here you can discuss ibanez, guitars, ibanez guitars, basses, acoustics, acoustic, mandolins, electric guitar, electric bass, amplifiers, effect pedals, tuners, picks, pickups.