Ibanez Collectors World

What model would be considered the "Holy Grail" for a steel string acoustic built in the 70's?

A late 70's Zemaitis heart hole 12 string acoustic. See Greg Lake playing "Father Christmas". Yummy. 25 gs if you can actually find one. ;)

See Bob's (BCy2k's) TAMA:

http://www.ibanezcollectors.com/forum/acoustic-guitars/serious-tama-porn/msg88317/#msg88317 (http://www.ibanezcollectors.com/forum/acoustic-guitars/serious-tama-porn/msg88317/#msg88317)

I think it's the model 3563.

If we could expand this slightly to '70s Ibanez, not TAMA, acoustics. There are quite a few available on Ebay at what seem like reasonable prices but I don't have a clue which models would be considered a good almost TAMA equivalent. Solid top, etc.

Why would anyone want a guitar from a drum company?
I vote for the Esteban Deluxe Master.

Chuck,

Doesnt Dave G have a rare{r} Ibanez accoustic? An Andorra?  ???

Well, SG asked for the holy grail. I would also like to hear recommendations on '70s Ibbie acoustics. Though I believe the probable recommendations would be the original Artwoods.

I had a 2846 dreadnought for a few weeks and really liked it. I often wish I had her back:

(http://s93105080.onlinehome.us/Ibanez-Catalogs/catalog/1976-5/12.jpg)

Right now this (http://www.ibanezcollectors.com/forum/free-classifieds/anybody-interested-in-my-series-ii-artwood-aw-30/) is the nicest Ibanez acoustic that I'm personally aware of that's actually for sale.  ;) :D

It's merely coincidence I happen to be the seller - LOL.

It's not 70s era, but it IS an '81 series II Artwood and the only '70s Ibanez acoustic models that are truly better would be a series I Artwood from the late '70s. Good luck finding one of those. I'm still looking myself.

This AW-30 does have a solid top and I'll sell it for a very reasonable price too. PM if you're interested.

Tama's suck BTW. Don't waste your time with those.  ;)  They're not even Ibanez. How could they possibly be any good?  8)

For those solid-top fans, the Artist 2608/9 series acoustics are fantastic (If you can find one).

I personally don't mind laminated tops. As such, I have a ton of late 70s Ibanez acoustics and by far the best (lam-top) that I have is a Floral Delux series Concord. I also have a Concord 762M that I am partial to and am actively looking for its 762J counterpart. A 954 would be nice too...

http://www.ibanez.co.jp/anniversary/expansion.php?cat_id=358&now=4
http://www.ibanez.co.jp/anniversary/expansion.php?cat_id=308&now=8
http://www.ibanez.co.jp/anniversary/expansion.php?cat_id=362&now=2
http://www.ibanez.co.jp/anniversary/expansion.php?cat_id=363&now=9

Okay, seriously.

If you're looking for a '70s era Ibanez acoustic that has a solid top your choices are:

V300S

V320S

981

983

These are it. It feels like I may have missed one or two models, but this is all I could find. Are they 'holy grail' material? Sure, as long as you disregard the '70s era Tamas and series I Artwoods. The latter not only have all solid tops, but all solid backs & sides as well. Arguably the best acoustics ever made that bore the Ibanez brand. They're REALLY REALLY hard to find and seldom sell for under $600 to $800. Typically, they can be much higher. IF you can even find one.

 - BC

EDIT: Yep - thanks Jeff. Those are the ones I missed: The Artist acoustics with the solid tops are winners too.

BC, this is very helpful. Everyone... thanks for the quick responses. Now I begin my search. I'll be sure to keep you all updated when I find one.

-Stu

Dave? An Andorra? That's a classical nylon string?
He never mentioned it...

I have two Andorras: one from 1976 and one from 1988.

And there is some other Chuck with a high end Andorra somewhere.


Ginger

Got to agree. Every time I see one of their TV ads, I GAS sooo much, it stinks something fierce.
I'm so glad they don't make drums too. That would really rattle me.

The "grail" for me - as some of you know - is the Series I Artwoods, built in the late '70s after Tama was discontinued.  I bought an AW-75 12-string new in 1981 (I believe it was built in 1980).  Turns out, Dan Fogelberg had exactly the same guitar that he used on stage for a long time and sold along with most of his others in 2004 (not sure if he bought it new)...  His is one serial number different than mine -- clearly made at the same time in the Owari Asahi shop.  I've never seen another one in the states.  These things aren't exactly unobtainium, but they are extremely rare.  Rarer still are the AW-120, -160, and -200 6-strings that capped off the line.  There were something like 20 or so of each of these that were built.  Maybe total??  I don't know.

The series I is the AW-60 (hog, satin), -70 (hog, gloss), 100 (3-piece rosewood), and the jacaranda rosewood-120, -160, and -200.

Some day I hope to have them all.  They are wonderful instruments, and they represent the pinnacle of what the small, Japanese luthier shops were capable of building.  After Hoshino left the Owari Asahi shop, they kind of diluted the original "all wood all the time" concept that I really appreciate in the series I.

Just for a taste, look at the exquisite woodwork on the tail of my -120.  No plastic, fiber, or anything else here:

(http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc47/Chazmo_bucket/Ibanez_AW-120/IMG_0731.jpg)

Backer/Ginger....Nope,, not me the only Andorra's I have are Custom Agents......Im not really much of an acoustic guy, but I have a  Ragtime, a NW40 and a viner "vintage" Ibanez as well as a couple of Martins (a sweet Maple one), Suzuki, and a broken up Gibson "Heritage" from the '70's.......

Sorry Dave! Thought you had one...see what a good friend I am, Im wishing you had yet another nice guitar in your collection! Lol!
The vined ibanez you have, is that the accoustic one that I saw on the bay during the late summer and fall last year?

Ditto.

Yeah - if we're really talking about THE Ibanez "Holy Grail" of acoustic builds, it's the series I Artwoods, followed by the series II Artwoods. It's almost indisputable. That said, the Tama builds from '77 to '79 sort of ARE Artwoods for all intents, and visa versa. Same builders, same facility. The Artwoods are probably more elegant based on the high end models I've seen.

I'm just partial to the pre 1977 Tama builds.

BC,

Have you (or anyone else I guess) had the chance to test drive the new Artwood Studios? I'm curious to see what they're like. Unfortunately, none of the "Ibanez" dealers near me seem to have any in stock.

js

Not yet Jeff - I'm very interested to play one though. Seems like Chaz has expressed interest in these too, but no one seems to have one in stock yet.  :-\

I continue to look, but I haven't gone into any of the "big box" stores where they might be (Sam Ash, Guitar Center, etc.)..  My local Ibby dealer has not had one in all year (and I've checked!)

That's correct, for sure, BC.  Same folks at the end of the '70s that made a transition from Tama production to Artwood in 1978.

I don't know about "more elegant," but what I really like about the Artwoods was the concept of everything being wood (even the pickguards).  It was only the series I that actually kept to this motto, though.  Ibanez just couldn't afford to continue producing these things.  Kind of a shame.

I love the Tamas, Bob.  They're arguably more important than the Artwoods from a collecting point of view since they were the end of the line.

Series I artwoods often fly under the radar because no one knows that they're special and Ibanez re-used just about all the model names so you have no idea that a series I AW-100 is more guitar than a current model.

Yeah - I think the wood pickguards on the series I AWs are extremely cool. Plus some of that tasty work they did on the head stock like the one in your avatar. To me that stuff rocks!


I think they're both amazing builds. As far as finding deals on early Artwoods under the radar, this is one of those deals where knowledge truly IS power. Problem is I can't even find a BAD deal, let alone a good one! LOL!

OMG! that is beautiful wood work, she is a beauty, show us more pics of her! she reminds me of the "SYari" with all that wonderful craftmanship.

Last week, I joined the Japanese made Artwood club, buying Bob's (BCy2k) Series II AW-30. I'm very happy with it. So happy, that I want more, more, more! :) Artwood Series I and TAMA, here I come.  :D

Here's my first impressions, when I compare the AW-30 to my '81 M340, I'm pretty surprised. Construction-wise, the M340 is a very good alternative. I didn't A/B it to my '78 NW40. But I've compared the NW40 to the M340 and so I don't think there will be any surprises when I do get around to it.

When I compare the AW-30 with my '72 Martin D35 (both solid spruce tops and rosewood back and sides), the AW-30 is much brighter. Maybe when I change the strings, the Martin will brighten up. But I doubt it will be close to the AW. There are other differences in materials between the two guitars that could account for the big difference in sound: rosewood vs. ebony fretboard and bridge, 2 vs. 3 piece back. Not sure if the saddle and nut are bone on the Martin, but the AW is plastic. None of this is meant as a criticism of the AW. The AW sounds very good, just not as close to the Martin as I expected.

The biggest reason that I wanted an alternative to the Martin is that it's harder to play than my Ibanezes. The AW has a slightly longer scale (between 3/16 and a 1/4") and the fretboard radius has more of a curve. I think those are the differences that make the Ibbies feel "easier" to play for me. Surprising, the neck shapes are not that dissimilar.

I see Bob passed on to you more than just a guitar, it seems you also gained an addiction, ...I mean appreciation for Series I/Tama. I KNOW exactly what you are going through. I dare not go looking or I will soon be finding more acoustics I just HAVE to 'try'. I'll be looking to put together a James Taylor tribute gig to justify my collection.

We have GAS, VIS, and now VTS (Vintage Tama Syndrome).
I don't think there is a cure...  ;)
 

Of course -  first you have to want a cure.  ;) :D

To which I say screw that!  ;D :D ;D

The only acoustics that will get me GASsy now are post 76 Tamas and series I Artwoods. I avoiding looking right now just because I need to start showing a little restraint. Which as most of you already know . . . I totally suck at.  :D

Rubbish. Restraint is overated... ;D ::) ;D

Not only am I not wanting a cure, I find it to be highly contageous. Once someone gets the bug, they get motivated to feed it and share it.

Mongo, from what Ive seen around here, thats not an issue....resistance is futile! ;)

The other night I thought I heard something from my guitar room.

"from this time forward... You will service... Us..."

(http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/5/51/LocutusOfBorg2367.jpg)

I immediately verified my bank balance :)

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Outlaw,

Thanks for the compliment on the AW-120.  Yes, the woodwork is top notch, and the wood itself is gorgeous.  I continue to appreciate the "all wood" concept that drove the design of the original Artwood guitars.  I was showing my AW-75 to some co-workers yesterday, and studying the wood bindings, purfling, rosette...  pure simplicity and purpose.  27 years later, it continues to astound me that I found that -75 in a big chain like Sam Ash.  I was captured by the guitar because of its sound, but now in retrospect the mere existence of these guitars remains a pleasant surprise.

I have lots o' pictures of the Artwoods up on photobucket, outlaw.  Feel free to peruse the Ibanez albums under here: http://s215.photobucket.com/albums/cc47/Chazmo_bucket/

John,

Welcome to the Artwood club!!!  Congrats!  I'm sure you'll find interesting comparisons with the Martins of the era.  It's entirely arguable that Ibanez out-Martined Martin in those days, and even though the Artwoods were top-of-the-line for Ibanez, they were *much* cheaper than the Martins that they competed with.  Those later Tamas and early Artwoods, well... of course, they were Martin-inspired, but I really think the Japanese luthiers were reaching the peak of their craft.  That said, Martin has the broadest range of dreads in the known universe.  Jeez, you can get lost in the product line between the different styles, bracing, woods...  It's impressive.

Anyway, best wishes in the hunt.  Beware, Tamas and Artwoods will suck you into acoustics in a big way. :D
 

Chasmo,

I just looked at the pictures of the AW-120. I just have to say that those are by far the best and clearest pictures of the inside of an acoustic I have ever seen.

I'd love to know what camera took those pics.
I look forward to seeing the rest of your pics.

Thanks, Mongo!  The inside of the AW-120 is very photogenic :).  I love how the German spruce is set off by the Jacaranda rosewood.

Anyway, the camera is a Canon PowerShot SD750 Digital Elph.   It's a 7.1 MPixel snapshot camera that fits in the palm of my hand (so it's easy to manoeuvre around the soundhole when the strings are off).  Generally I put it in macro setting and leave the flash on automatic inside the body.

I haven't done this yet with the AW-120 pix, but Windows Live Picture Manager let's you create panorama shots by "stitching" together multiple pictures.  I did this panorama of the inside of my '67 Guild F-50R.  Cool, isn't it (forgive the non-Ibby content)?!:

(http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc47/Chazmo_bucket/1967%20Guild%20F-50R/panoramas/IMG_1131Stitch.jpg)

I'm really glad to hear you like the AW-30 John. I think I'm almost over the separation anxiety too . . . almost.  ;) :D ;D :D

I didn't know I'd be pouring so much gas (pun intended) on the series I Artwood/Tama fire like this, but at least you now know first hand what some of us have been going on about for so long.  8) 

I'd like to think I only have a couple significant gaps to fill in my harem/arsenal. I'll try to enjoy the hunt. I expect it'll be a long one.  8)

Very cool pics too Chaz!!!

Panoramic.... Mmmmmm...  Good...
<Homer Simpson>

Tnx, BC.  I expect collecting these things to be a lifelong pursuit.