Artist question....

[seattledan]

   I own both ibanez and gibson w/ flame tops.  I am just surprised how much nicer the ibanez wood is, and wondered if it was thinner, or if wood was cheaper in the 70's in Japan.

[aliensporebomb]

And my thoughts was having some more informed people defend the guitar I've really
taken a shine to.  It does seem that in some cases veneers were used but whether this
is the case or not, my own guitar does seem to have a thick top of at least half an inch
on top of another underbody wood.  It produces a familiar sound that is thick, long
sustaining with a treble edge on top so take that how you will I suppose.  I'd like to
think it's real because it looks real.  It seems to sound real too.  But, it really doesn't
matter: do the chicks still scream at some hot solo you play?  That's what counts I
suppose.

[aliensporebomb]

Here are a couple pictures of my '79 and '80 ST50s clearly showing veneer tops. Hard to see with the dark sunburst. Is there anything Ibanez didn't put veneer on:)

The other thing: those two guitars?  Those are stylish and interesting: it's like they
used different kinds of wood for a contrasting, artistic effect rather than some
"deceptive" practice. 

I also am impressed by the woodwork involved. 

The back of the neck on my artist: the way it joins to the headstock and the body
is very, very similar to the quality of some fine furniture that a friends family has -
the quality of the wood, the smoothness of the stain and the rounded edges on
the backside of the body.

All I know is when people see my guitar they kind of go silent and just look at it so...
no problem!

[ChuckE99]

Over the past 15 years or so I have had several Artists pass thru my hands...

More like several THOUSANDS...

 

I'm with Dave on this one. "Veneers" tend to be hidden. Those ST's actually show off the layering of the wood for artistic effect. It's craftsmanship, not deception.

[Mongo]

I need to go back and look at my Studios. The burst on them goes almost to black, so I doubt I'll be able to see the layering on the horns.

Too bad, it looks really cool in the picture.

[dave_g]

The Veneer technique was used on any guitar with the block construction (LP clones for example) It is also used on the 80's era Artists-I stripped a black one and a pearl white one, both had a veneer on the back-I thought it unusual for a painted guitar ....

[porkpie]

Mongo, I have owned the '79 for several years and never noticed the layered top. The 80' is a very light sunburst and evident. It takes a very bright light to see the layers. I agree the whole purpose of using a veneer is to make an object, whether furniture or a guitar, more attractive, and affordable. Ibanez does an excellent job on both counts. i'm not sure about the artistic side of things since it is pretty well covered up by the sunburst but its not deception unless it is marketed as one solid piece of wood.

[daveh]

In this day and age, veneering is really the way to go.
 
Trivia question:
Who were the first people, on record, to veneer attractive wood over a lesser substrate?

[ChuckE99]

Who were the first people, on record, to veneer attractive wood over a lesser substrate?

Egyptians?

[triumph]

I don't know what this Ibanez bashing session is really about, but it has degererated into a comparison of one of the low end models to the top-of-the-line.......interesting. but stupid....

Let's remove the emotion and hype from this discussion, and focus on the facts and specs.

I don't see any Ibanez bashing in this thread.

Face the facts: Ibanez has used figured veneers on their Artist guitars. Obviously it's cheaper to use a veneer instead of a solid figured top because the materials are cheaper. Ibanez is a company that wanted to make money. There is nothing with that, and nothing wrong with veneers, but let's at least be honest and realistic about how Ibanez guitars were built before people start believing their own exaggerations.

[BCy2k]

Who were the first people, on record, to veneer attractive wood over a lesser substrate?

Egyptians?

 

[triumph]

Here are a couple pictures of my '79 and '80 ST50s clearly showing veneer tops.

That almost looks intentional to me, as part of the design, as mentioned above.

When Ibanez tried to hide multi-piece construction, they did stuff like the wide bass bout sunburst on their early strat copies. The extra wide band of black paint around the edge obscured the body sandwich that was visible at the contour cut on the bass bout.

[dave_g]

Triumph.........Im not sure where you got your facts from, but I have not seen ANY conclusive proof that Ibanez used figured veneers on the tops of ANY guitars.  The only proof positive use of veneers is on the BACKS of guitars that used the Mahogany block construction-most likely to hide the seams between the blocks that make up the core of the body.  

I know you hate the idea that Ibanez has been making guitars that make the executives at Gibson write new resumes, but if you could stick to the facts rather than your personal conjecture, your comments might be taken seriously.

The use of veneers is perfectly acceptable in Lutherie, infact vintage guitars with Marquetry are coveted by collectors and command premium prices-Marquetry is a decorative form of Veneer. Wouldn't a veneeer be consitered an upgrade to "photoflame" ?

Whats wrong with making money anyway ? Gibson seems to trying very hard to shove pretty run of the mill guitars at the public with ridiculous prices (guitar of the week, month, robot guitar) How about the sale of Gibson and Fender guitars to Best Buy and Cosco ?

[Mongo]

Sooooo   How bout them Egyptians....   

[triumph]

Triumph.........Im not sure where you got your facts from, but I have not seen ANY conclusive proof that Ibanez used figured veneers on the tops of ANY guitars.  The only proof positive use of veneers is on the BACKS of guitars that used the Mahogany block construction-most likely to hide the seams between the blocks that make up the core of the body.

Leave Gibson out of this -it's an irrelevant distraction. Let's talk about Ibanez guitars, their specs, and how they cut some corners to build their guitars for a cheaper price.

The guitar in this thread has a veneer.

I own an AR105 with a burl veneer top. I am the past owner of another burl top (think it was a 305) and a flamed AR500 that was a veneer.

Other figured veneer top Artist owners have popped up in this thread.

I want to point out just how rose-colored your Ibanez glasses are when you say you "have not seen ANY conclusive proof that Ibanez used figured veneers on the tops of ANY guitars." You must not have looked very hard - the AM205 is made from a laminate body with figured burl veneer top.

Ibanez is good, but let's be honest about the specs before we start brainwashing ourselves into thinking that their highly skilled luthiers crapped cupcakes and spoke 17 languages in addition to spraying a magical poly finish that was thinner and better than nitro, ok?