Artist question....

[jason43]

Triumph.........Im not sure where you got your facts from, but I have not seen ANY conclusive proof that Ibanez used figured veneers on the tops of ANY guitars.  The only proof positive use of veneers is on the BACKS of guitars that used the Mahogany block construction-most likely to hide the seams between the blocks that make up the core of the body. 

It was my understanding that the AR105's and AR305's were a burled mahogany veneer over a maple cap over the mahogany body. Thats what my MIK AR305 appears to be. There's no shame in that. Its not a sign of a cheap guitar, its just a way to have a burled mahogany top AND a maple cap. And IF the flame tops used a veneer, I still don't see what the big deal is. It still has a maple cap. I understand being upset if it were just a maple veneer over the mahogany body(like some companies do), but tonally and visually it makes no difference on an AR.

Why doesn't someone with vintage AR pull a pot or a toggle switch and take a look and put this to rest?

[BCy2k]

Sooooo   How bout them Egyptians....   

  Indeed - so just who are the 'big' Egyptian guitar builders these days?

[Mongo]

Indeed - so just who are the 'big' Egyptian guitar builders these days?

I'm not sure, but I think they sponsored The Bangles

    O
 _/  \_
    ||
  _/\_    Walk like an Eygyptian......

[dave_g]

Jason......NO way we dont need to prove a point, Triumph knows it all.......

Triumph...The ONLY person in this ridiculous thread that is insisting that Ibanez uses Figured Veneers on the tops of Artists is .........well........YOU !

I know my knowledge of Artists is very limited, I have only owned 250 or so of these guitars in the last 10 years including the 170 some odd ones in my possession at the moment.

From my limited knowledge base, I do not believe that ANY of the Artist series had veneered tops.

That being said, it makes sense to me that the Tiger series (1983) would be the series that could possibly be a veneer and I base that on the advertising that focused on the figure of the top-I'll reserve that judgement until a memeber of this board removes a PUP and takes a look at the top.

I could be wrong, after all you owned three of them...

Now that you have switched your anti Ibanez retoric from your gushing over the great quality of Gibson to a witch hunt over illusive veneers, we should focus on why we are here.

Ibanez has introduced more innovation to the average guitar player in the last 30 years than Gibson or Fender ever did. (Sure Grip, Gibralter, Sustain block, 1/2 brass nut, Quick change, Velve touch, etc) . When was the last time either of these US companies (with factories in ALL of the Asian markets) came up with a successful new model ? Ibanez has introduced many (Iceman, Artist, Professional, Performer, Concert, Ghostrider, and many more)

Gibson seems to be focused on regrinding the same ol same ol just in different finishes.  (there are over 30 different models of Les Paul and 20 models of SG that are current)

Of course Ibanez was trying to make money, they were also trying to break into a US business that for DECADES was dominated by the American manufacturers-and succeeded.  In addition, they completely reinvented themselves not once (1977-78) but twice (early 80's) as the market changed.

FYI-I also have quite an extensive collection of vintage Gibson guitars...

[snowjays]

There certainly aint no veneer on top of my AR500.  The only Artist solid body that has a veneer top the the original bolt neck model 2614, which is basically the same constriction as the early LP clones. 
The only place that there is veneer on my AR500 is on the headstock.

I can also say that the AR2000 doesn't have any veneer, the 2700 definately has no veneer except on the head stocks, and I'm not about to pull the other Artist apart.
How much flame is in the timber depends on how it's cut.  To actually steam an fabricate a maple veneer to a cap would cost more than just using a 12mm block carved back.  If Ibanez used a veneer on top, why do it on top of an expensive maple?

So, just how thick are you saying this veneer is on your Artist?

[porkpie]

It's about a 1/16" typical veneer thickness. This is my 1982 AR300.

[daveh]

Who were the first people, on record, to veneer attractive wood over a lesser substrate?

Egyptians?

Give the man a cigar!

They were also the first to use dovetails.

[daveh]

It's about a 1/16" typical veneer thickness. This is my 1982 AR300.

That is definitely a veneer.

from Snojay;
"To actually steam an fabricate a maple veneer to a cap would cost more than just using a 12mm block carved back."

Veneers are applied using vacum-bag clamping, Atmospheric pressure does all the bending/forming.

[aliensporebomb]

I'll see if I can find the photo from the Gibson owner that illustrated that
his was a "real maple top" versus my picture of my artist which he claimed
was made from "at least two maybe three pieces". 

But that's one guys opinion and I have to admit the shielding paint inside
the pickup cavity has made it very hard to determine just what is what
but it certainly appears as if it is real to me.




"Three views of a secret"...

Looks like the white line is where the top joins to the bottom but I've not yet
looked more intently under the conductive paint.  Maybe I shouldn't need to.

[triumph]

It's about a 1/16" typical veneer thickness. This is my 1982 AR300.

Well look at that. It's a veneer. Ibanez used veneers on some Artist guitars.

Several examples posted now.

They're not all veneers, but many are.

Veneer is cheaper than solid figured wood, but there is more labor. Guess what was cheap in Japan in 1976? Labor.

Dave, why not pop a few pickups on those hundreds of Artists and have a good look?

[snowjays]

Triumph,  well that the first I have seen on these.  But on my AR500 I can clearly see the grain all the way to the top.  Unless this was the way they made the "catch the Tiger" AR300's, it's not a feature on earlier models that I have seen so far.

Daveh, veneering over a curved surface does include steaming and vaccum clamping, otherwise the veneer cracks under pressure.

[aliensporebomb]

Now that I think about it:
-What's so bad about wood sandwiched on top of wood on top of wood?

If it resonates well so it is musical, then it's not necessarily a bad thing.
If it looks nice, so much the better.

It's not "plastic 3m film photograph of woodgrain on top of wood on top of wood.".

[aliensporebomb]

Jason......NO way we dont need to prove a point, Triumph knows it all.......

Triumph...The ONLY person in this ridiculous thread that is insisting that Ibanez uses Figured Veneers on the tops of Artists is .........well........YOU !

I know my knowledge of Artists is very limited, I have only owned 250 or so of these guitars in the last 10 years including the 170 some odd ones in my possession at the moment.

From my limited knowledge base, I do not believe that ANY of the Artist series had veneered tops.

(Snip)

FYI-I also have quite an extensive collection of vintage Gibson guitars...

On a slightly different topic...
Dave: you really* have 170 Ibanez Artists in your possession?  Droooooool.
How did you accumulate such a collection?   Why the obsession with the Artist?
I love it too but....where do you put them all?

What is your favorite(s)?  Can you identify differences down to years or do
you think they are all more or less similar in certain ways?

Is there an "Underdog" of the group that shines above all the others or are
they all pretty much unique in character? 

I wonder how long it would take to tune 170 six string guitars (1020 strings!)?

[dave_g]

Alien....I have over 170 Ibanez guitars-there not all Artist series, but most older than 1980 -including 2618, 2619, 2622, 2700, 2710, AR500, AR5000, Professional Series, Deluxe 59ers, Studios, LP Clones, Performer series, Concert series, Musicians, Oldies, Custom Agent, Ghostrider and some others....

There arent really any clunkers in the group.  I'm not much of a fan of Pointy guitars, but I still dig the korina trio......

My favorites have to be the 2617 & the Custom Agent-by far the pinnacle of Japanese lutherie & one of the most interesting guitars Ibanez ever made......