"Diplomacy . . .

[BCy2k]

 . . . is the ART of LETTING OTHERS have your way."

I first heard this comment from one of my Recording Tech. professors at CU-Denver. I've never forgotten it. The Professor's name was Bill Porter and at the time I studied there he was in charge of the recording department.

Before he taught at CU-Denver, he had one of the most distinguished careers any recording engineer could ever hope for. You see, he worked for RCA Records in Nashville back in the day. He engineered ALL the early recordings of rock pioneers like Elvis Presley, Roy Orbison, the Everly Brothers, Chet Atkins, and many, many others. Getting to hear him talk about some of the things that went on behind the scenes during these historic sessions was like being a kid in a candy store. Just mesmerizing.

But this isn't what I'm posting about.

It's about diplomacy. Bill had to intervene sometimes when tempers got hot, egos bruised etc. He told us he even had to clear the studio once when the Everly Brothers got into a full on brawl and beat the living @!## out of each other. But evidently after they got it out of their system, they did finish the session. Can you imagine? LOL!

So about diplomacy then.

I'm just bringing it up because it seems like there have been a good many folks who have come to this board seeking information about their guitars. They get plenty of quality info and help from the collective knowledge of the regulars here. Things are just going along really great. We get to help someone, the folks get the info they need and everything is good with the universe. But lately, not every time mind you, it seems like some little "incident" occurs that somehow manages to become a federal frikkin' case out of next to NOTHING. N-A-D-A.

It almost ALWAYS involves the person seeking info being told something that doesn't validate their preconceived expectations about something. Be it the authenticity/brand of their guitar, the selling price, the condition, wether it's stock or modded, and a litany of other fairly harmless stuff that sometimes becomes "A BIG STINKY INCIDENT."

Suddenly stuff is flying in twenty different directions, and the flaming starts, and it goes, and goes, and goes, and it's kind of fun, and it's usually funny, and then  -- it still keeps going, and the next thing you know - it's still effing going. And everybody looses sight of the "STUPIDITY LINE" because no one remembers crossing it - but we're all pretty sure it's way way way the heck behind us. 

The funny thing is, sometimes these "incidents" involve someone who wants to sell their guitar, and ironically many of the most prolific buyers of Ibanez and other Fujigen/Hoshino guitars (ICW) get alienated in the process. It's hilarious and pathetic at the same time.

So remember, if you're trying to sell a guitar, diplomacy it the art of letting others have your way.

And if you're trying to buy a guitar remember, diplomacy is the art of letting others have your way as well.

I'm not bringing this up because I know any better than anyone else here. I know I don't. Nor am I calling anyone out or referring to any one "incident" in particular. All I'm really doing is ruining my obscenely high post per day average, and maybe stimulate a little conversation along the way.

In the spirit of the election season, this post has been approved by BCy2k and is solely responsible for it's content.

[bobzilla]

One can NEVER account for other's perceptions.
One may state something with innocent intentions and then,
just because of how something is perceived,
it's starts a row..
You can't account for that nor can you avoid it, it's inevitable.
With so many people touching heads here,
just the sheer quantity of "contact" is gonna raise a problem every now and then because everybody's so different.

Really, what I'd like to add to the above is....

Kindly reserve final judgment until the whole issue is sorted out,
whatever it may be.
Sometimes things turn out differently, once all the facts are in.

For the most part,
I think we have each others backs around here and tiff's between members are quite few and far between.
Nothing's perfect though.
But, I think ICW is pretty top-notch as far as how we treat each other.
Every now and then, there's a hissy fit but,
it's to be expected.
No escaping it.
Every now and then, we all make mistakes.
We sort it out, we move on.
it's our ability to forgive and forget, when rows take place,
that's REALLY important.
I think we do that rather well around here.

I am personally sorry for all/whatever stupid mistakes I've made.
They were just that... simple mistakes.
never malicious ones.
NEVER.

[backer60]

Bcy2k,

From one of the saved....AMEN. I entered a fool but am becoming wise in the ways of the force. My father and grandfather would both say the same thing to anyone looking for answers and help..."When seeking advice,remember you have one mouth and  two ears....use them in equal proportion!" This is a great group...Glad I joined. Bill

[guitarwhisperer]

I don't think anyone here's malicious.

I think it's kind of like e-mails. I come across HORRIBLY in e-mails. HORRIBLY. For some reason I "sound" angry or sensitive when I'm not. Face to face is always better, because the tone of my voice really says a lot about what I'm really thinking and feeling.

These posts are kind of the same thing, letters on a screen in black and white, the nuances are missing.

I put my foot in my mouth in person a lot, too, though, although it's not as catastrophic as my typed correspondences can get sometimes.

[dave_g]

GW.....You make some excellent points-much of the nuances, especially sarcasm are lost to the printed word

[tef]

BCy2K, compliments for starting this thread!
I've always experienced the ICW site as a friendly and very informative forum and only once as far as I remember, there was a little arguement (was it the artwood strat issue??).... Fine! Among collectors things can become messy when a very rare item is in the picture.
Issues about ebay auctions are discussed here in detail. That's part of what this site is about imo. This includes informing your fellow ibanez lovers about fake axes being offered, discussions on sell prices and BIN prices etc.... As long as everyone maintains their decorum things should always be fine.
What i've noticed more than once is that people do not like it when information that has been shared in a person to person email is shared on this forum, for all to read. My idea would be to be inform someone before sharing "confidential" information, imo also a decorum thing....
Again this is my personal opinion on things like this. I am aware of the fact that this site is very unpersonal (As all forums are), but let's all just try to be fonzies here....
thomas

[bobzilla]

yes, well, sometimes people say others have disclosed personal e-mail correspondences.... when they haven't.
To utter the "general content/idea" of what was discussed is NOT the same as exactly divulging the private minutia. I don't consider divulging the "basics" of an e-mail coversation (vs. cutting and pasting the exact conversation for all to see) as the same thing.
So....
Like I said above, wait til whatever "sticky matters" arise... pan themselves out before making final judgments.
There are folks who visit here with the sole intention to create problems and we facilitate that, by responding to them.

There are others who, when they don't like the facts, lash out at those offering the facts.
What can anyone do about folks like that?
NOTHING.
Just ban them.

One or two LOSERS can really muck things up around here.
DO NOT ALLOW THAT by feeding into there plots, which you do... by recognizing/responding to them.

This site so far outpasses any other guitar forum on the net that it's a shame one or two losers are ALLOWED to remain on here , when, by now, they've shown their true intentions, which is to purposely an unnecessarily create STRIFE.

[backer60]

Bobs right. A little jousting among the members of this board who know the most is helpful to the guys like me that are learning the ins and outs of all things Ibanez. Keeping focus on the guitars is the most important thing.There isnt any place for the personal stuff. My first posts were brutal... I acted like a horses a@@,armed only with a fistful of misinformation I managed to P/O a bunch of people in the group and convince the rest that I was a total idiot. I shut my mouth, listened, got more info and apologized to all concerned. I came here to learn about my guitars and share ideas and information.I visit this sight to have fun, because even though Im no longer an every night musician, I still love to play, and talk music and guitars. That is what its about isnt it? We can agree to disagree, but still keep a measure of civility. Bill

[bobzilla]

I can't imagine that it's not obvious to all that ICW is REMARKABLE in it's ability to sustain educated members, genuinely good-natured members, and provide what I consider to be a vastly superior site, compared to all sites of this type. I can't imagine that it's not obvious to all that have been here a while that it's only one or 2 clowns.... with ulterior motives or....
inabilities to deal with facts they don't like...

that mess things up from time to time.

Then... what?
We all get "punished" for the few.
99.99% of posters/members here, to me, are truly and genuinely some of the nicest and well-informed people I've ever met in my life.
John, as the Big Kahuna is just astounding in the way he handles this site.
I could go on and on about John and way more than sevral members who constantly give to this site the things that make it as awesome as it is.

let's not put ourselves under a microscope because of one or two jackasses, please.
We know who they are.
Just either ban or ignore tham and watch what happens...
they'll go away because we're not feeding into their ulterior motives.

All you guys (not me) should be dang proud of yourselves fior the way you've handled thousands upon thousands of correspondences between ourseklves on this site.
PROUD!

I think we take for granted the intense insight and knowledge and FACTS that are distributed on this site.
This site far surpasses any other that I've come across.
You should all be proud of yourselves for your contributions.
Don't let one or two doooooooooooooshbags bring the microscope down on you.
We don't need a microscope for the loons, they're stupidity can be measured without implements because their objectives are so blatantly obvious.

the need for the genesis of this thread is solely because of these IDIOTs, not the NORMAL day-to-day contributors and newbies.

I hope you all realize that, without me having to explain it.

I'm not perfect, nor will I ever be.
But I hope and pray that I'm reasonable enough to keep an open mind and genuinely sift through opposing views and have the ability to put those opposing views into perspective and...
change my views, if it's the right thing to do.

The clowns only have objectives and that's why it never goes any further than that with them.
DO NOT ALLOW IT!
IGNORE THEM.

We're basically good boys and girls and we get along with others.... just fine!
can I have some cookies and milk now?

[BCy2k]

Along the lines of divulging so called "private" information, or information obtained through private communication  - I started a thread about a Tama acoustic that's currently on Ebay and there are things about this guitar that absolutely should be disclosed, but are not. I have no problem sharing that info here because I feel an obligation to - to me it's just the right thing to do.

Bill - stop beating yourself up over that stuff. We love you.

It's completely ironic that I of all people would start this thread because as some of you may have noticed, there are times when I really do not have any interest in being diplomatic at all. I know it's subtle, and easy to miss - but I attribute it to a severe allergic reaction I get when exposed to repeated acts of foolishness, hypocrisy, and other Darwinistic behavior.

Alas, I am only human.

[backer60]

Bcy2k,

Im touched! LOL! Bill

[dave_g]

What ever happened to the SMITE button ?

[ChuckE99]

Yeah, bring back the SMITE!

[bobzilla]

"Smite" is one of my favorite words.

"verklempt" being another.

Yes, there really should be a smite button.

John?


"A-Hole" button ?

"Invader w/ulterior motives"  button?
"Can't handle the facts"  button??

[guitarwhisperer]

We don't need a smite button now, do we?