"Les Paul is not a trade mark but common noun"

[Juha T]

From Helsingin Sanomat

http://www.hs.fi/talous/artikkeli/K%C3%A4r%C3%A4j%C3%A4oikeus+tuomitsi+Gibsonin+Les+Paul+-kitaran+yleisnimeksi/1135239205087

"Gibson Guitar Corporation has lost one of the most important of trade marks in Finland. The Helsinki District Court decided last week that Gibson's "Les Paul" trade mark has lost its distinctive character.

The decision is final, because Gibson is not going to complain about it.

...

The Helsinki District Court decided that the Les Paul, the words have been changed to refer to a certain guitar type, which is manufactured also by other companies, not only Gibson. A registered trade mark is, therefore, changed to common language words, as many other brands, the proprietor of the trade mark has not proctored its use.

...

Several witnesses told, however, that the Les Paul-word combination means in the language of the music world body design of certain types of guitars. In their view, the words describe the characteristics like cars are described with types sedan, wagon or estate."

For more run the article in a web translator.

Juha

[BCy2k]

Interesting decision. Les Paul still owns the rights to his name though. So if he want's to stop companies from using it I'd imagine he certainly can.

[dave_g]

The most frustrating part about it is the Gibson/EBay shuts down hundreds of auctions everyday for using the words Les Paul in the title. The only way to auction off a LP in the title without having your auction pulled is to spell it wrong like "Less Paul" or Lester....

Its really frustrationg consitering how many LP clones are out there !

[ChuckE99]

"Les Paul" is destined to join the ranks of other words such as elevator and aspirin. Both were trademark terms that lost their protection. Companies with trademarks such as "Kleenex" and "Xerox" spend a lot of time protecting their marks against such decisions. I remember seeing advertisements in writing magazines years ago that actually said, "Remember, there are TWO R's in Xerox®!"

[guitarwhisperer]

I like my Ibanez Les Paul better than the Gibson ones any day. As a matter of fact I already sold my Gibson Les Paul, and kept my Ibanez Les Paul!

[BCy2k]

"Les Paul" is destined to join the ranks of other words such as elevator and aspirin. Both were trademark terms that lost their protection.

I think it'll be quite a while before the legalities surrounding Les Paul's name allow it to become synonymous with something like "aspirin." Mostly because it's still a guy's actual name in addition to being a product name. And assuming Les has heirs there's no telling how long it will remain protected.

I totally agree that in the guitar lexicon, the term "Les Paul"  conjures up an immediate visual image of a very specific guitar shape. No question. I don't necessarily think of Gibson anymore either - maybe that's just me though.

It's just one of those silly legal things that's destined to put money into the pockets of lawyers for years to come.

I find it ironic that lawyers are among the few professionals out there who can actually AFFORD to buy a genuine Gibson Les Paul. Based on the LP prices that I've seen lately, I'm virtually positive Gibson isn't trying to market them to actual working musicians anymore. 

That's what the Epiphone LP is for 

[gemberbier]

The only other brand name I can find in that link is Tokai.
They had a Tokai Les Paul Reborn in the 1970s.
Then they changed the name into "Love Rock", a name as pink and sweet as candy floss...
I don't know what the case was about: putting the name Les Paul (Reborn) on the guitar, or describing the model as a "Les Paul" model.
The latter shouldn't be a problem. The judge would be right about that, IMO. We must be able to describe something as short and adequate as possible (that's the principle of "language economics").

The fact that for instance Fender registered "Stratocaster" and "Strat" as trademarks, should not keep consumers or retailers from describing a Challenger as a "Strat" model.
But after that decision we are getting on thin ice, because:
if consumers and retailers may do so, why shouldn't Hoshino be allowed to describe Challengers and Silver series as "Strat" models, and RG and JEM models as "Superstrats"?

It's different and more obvious when they would put the actual word on the axe.

I cannot imagine that a judge, even a Finnish judge, would allow that. That's the BLACK area. FORBIDDEN.

But that he decides that guitar companies don't have to communicate about their products in a stranger and more complicated manner than retailers and consumers do, is something that I, from a linguistic perspective, can understand.
Although mentioning these registered Trademarks in the catalogs is almost as bad as putting them on non-Fender or in case of the Les Paul non-Gibson axe. However, the catalogs provide one extra possibility: footnotes like "Stratocaster and Strat are registered trademarks of Fender Musical Instruments".

I find legally forced uneconomic communication actually a bit ridiculous. Just compare:

"the other two humbucker mahogany setneck model"
"Les Paul model"
"LP model"

Think of the paper (trees!) wasted on such uneconomic communication worldwide!

This verdict is a step in an interesting development process.

Btw: I tried to read a Korean article with the help of some webtranslation soft, but that wasn't a success. Juha, can you suggest something that works better for Finnish-English?


Ginger

[Juha T]

Tokai

It was Tokai's importer/retailer, Musamaailma, that was taken to court by Gibson's importer. Before this Gibson's importer had been sentenced to pay compensations and penalty because they had sent email to music stores telling Musamaailma (and others ?) imports illegal guitar copies.

Web translators

Finnish is a difficult source language for automatic translation and apparently too small to get enough attention from translator developers. I had to "clean" the sentences above and I am too lazy to try to translate the whole story. Try different translators and see if there are differences, one may translate something better and an other something else.

Edit: Looks like Google Translate is the only one that gets something reasonable done.

Juha

[bobzilla]

Maybe someone should send a link to this thread... to Ebay?

[bobzilla]

P.S. - I think this courts decision is incorrect and I'm surprised Gib won't pursue this to the ends of the earth. Any Co. worth their salt would pursue this and NEVER let it go until they prevailed.

The other opinion given the court, and which the court rejected, is valid and substantial and I believe in the end, with proper representation, Gib would prevail.

[zontar]

Interesting decision. Les Paul still owns the rights to his name though. So if he want's to stop companies from using it I'd imagine he certainly can.

Les Paul is not a common noun--he is a proper noun!

[BCy2k]

Les Paul is still out there gigging - well into his 90's!! We should all be so lucky!!

Let's face it - Les is too cool. Don't mess with Les.

[bobzilla]

I believe he plays here in NY every weekend and he's quite cordial and accomodating.
Did you see that first electric axe he invented?
If I recall, it was really more like a stright plank of wood with strings and a pup.

[BCy2k]

Heh - I think he even called it, "the log" - LOL!

[Roland_G303]

Les Paul is still out there gigging - well into his 90's!! We should all be so lucky!!

Let's face it - Les is too cool. Don't mess with Les.

+1

Les is super cool !

Patrick