Another question about tube amps

[ChuckE99]

The more I play out at this small bar on Wednesday nights, the more I wish I had a nice, small, compact real-tube amp to play through. Something with nothing more than one 12" speaker, but even one 10" might due if the amp threw out the sound. I want a real tube sound. That growl and distortion you hear coming from the big Marshall stacks or a Fender Twin, but in a small and hopefully light/portable combo. I have my pedal board pretty much set now: A Keeley-modded TS-9, my Demon Wah (though I want a Crybaby after all, I think), an Ibbie Chorus and a Boss Delay.

What are folks' recommendations for an amp? There was a guy who played at the bar a few weeks ago who had a very small Peavey tube amp (one 10" I think, if not an 8") and it literally screamed. I don't need much, because the room is fairly small and I don't plan on playing anywhere bigger than that for a long time.

Ideally, you'll recommend something I can find on CL in used condition for less than $500, but I do want to hear opinions on the higher-end stuff too. I just may be able to swing more for a great amp.

[BCy2k]

Amps are a lot like guitars in that everybody will have a personal favorite or bias. Obviously you have to make the call with your own ears and wallet.

IMHO - there still is NO SUBSTITUTE for the real deal. To me, the real deal is an all tube path. Meaning not only a tube pre-amp, but a tube power amp too. From here there are several brands that can deliver at a number of different price points.

I still have a hybrid amp with a tube pre-amp and a solid state power amp section. It's a Dean Markley RM-80-DR. I would recommend these if you can find one. They come in a variety of power levels (MK has a RM-120-DR w. 120 watts of power) and they fit your 1x12" criteria. They're nice in that there are two identical sets of knobs for your clean sound and your drive sound. The clean can sound like a Fender and the drive does a nice Marshall type sound. You can dial in a lot of nice tones with it. I put a Celestion speaker in mine and it is really versatile IMHO.

It's not that I hate the amp modeling stuff - I have that stuff in spades. I've got a PODxt, a Boss VF-1, Guitar Rig 2 & 3, TC Electronic Tubifex (part of my TC Powercore), and Logic's 'Guitar Amp Pro' - I'm probably forgetting something. They've all got strengths and weaknesses - and it's all still just my ears versus another guys. I know guys who hate the over driven sounds from modelers while I find the clean sounds to be pretty unacceptable in general.

My best amps have been all tube though. I just got back from a session where I used my new rig for the first time and it was pretty cool. It's a Rocktron Prophesy tube pre-amp/fx unit into a Mesa Boogie 50/50 stereo power amp into two Rocktron Sh-112 cabinets. I also have a TS-808 in the fx loop of the Prophesy. I've only had time to dial in 4 sounds on it so far and even though I haven't scratched the surface of what it'll do - I'm REALLY pleased with the rig and I'm looking forward to exploring it more.

So all in all I don't have any specific amps to recommend - but I want to stress if it's that tube sound that you're after you MUST have a tube pre-amp. That part is a given. Personally I'd really recommend a tube power amp too though. I never appreciated what a difference that made until I bought a Mesa Boogie mk-IV and a Marshall JMP-1 run into a stereo Marshall 9100 power amp. Pretty heavy rigs though. Sweeet tones though. OMG!!

I can't describe it - you just have to play one and I'm pretty sure you'll hear what I'm talking about. To me, if the amp has an all tube path, it's just a matter of finding the one with the 'flavor' you're partial to. Check out Fender, Peavey, Tube Works, Mesa, Marshall, 1x12 combos and see what you think. There are loads of boutique amps too, but they can get real pricey. I think you can get what you're looking for from the usual suspects brand-wise.

Good luck with it Chuck. The only thing more fun than shopping for an amp is shopping for vintage Ibbys.

[emckenrick]

The Fender Princeton Reverb Re-Issue (PRRI) is getting all kinds of accolades on other forums.  Evidently quite gig worthy in small venues.

Can't hurt to check it out....but prepare to be smitten.

[sunil]

Keeping in that cost range of $500.00 +/-, I like a Marshall JTM-30.  You can find then on ebay in 1x12 and sometimes even 2x10.

The reason I like that one is because it's two channel.  Nice clean and searing gain, even at lower volumes, but it does get loud.

If you only need single channel, Goodsell makes some crushing class A amps in 1x12, although I like the 2x12 with two different speakers.  I've really never gigged with a single channel amp.

Also, the JTM-30 1x12 is not very heavy.

In the end, you probably have a few hundred option, right?

[Roland_G303]

I think the Fender Hot Rod Deluxe is a great little 12" 40W (loud as heck) tube amp.  It won't give you the Marshall sound, but it does get driven well with a Tube Screamer.  That was the amp I used for quite a while until I bought my Super Twin Reverb.  I've seen them on CL for $500 or less.  They've got a little weight to them, but they're not terribly heavy.

I use a lot of effects, so I prefer the headroom you get with a higher wattage amp like the Super Twin Reverb (180W!).  If you're going to be playing in a small club, then the Hot Rod would be perfect.

Patrick

[ChuckE99]

Thanks, everyone, for the advice. Bob, I like your "all tube" recommendation. How do I tell if an amp is all tube? Do they say so in the specs? I guess I'm going to have to go down to the GC and try some amps. (I'll have to bring along my 2630 and 2619, though, since the crap they hang up there and label Gibson and Fender guitars are just a shame.) I'm not looking forward to that, though, because our local GC employees are complete no-nothings. Their reply to every question I have has been, "hey, why don't you try this high-margin product over here, the one I can make a bonus on if I sell it!"

[BCy2k]

 How do I tell if an amp is all tube? Do they say so in the specs?

They should state something about tubes as to how many and what type somewhere. You may find better (more reliable) sources for this info on the various maker's websites. In a perfect world the guys at the shop should know these things - but as you say - at GC you never know if you're going to get a person who knows their stuff or not.

When checking them in a shop I usually have a look at the back of the amp to see the tubes. Most of these 1x12 and 2x12 combos will be open back cabinets though not always. Pre-amp tubes (typically 12AX7's or their equivalent) will be smaller and power amp tubes (typically 6L6s are found in Fender & Mesa amps) are the bigger tubes. If you see both types in a combo amp that's usually a good indicator it's "all tube."

Sometimes you can't see the pre-amp tubes because they're inside the chassis, but you can usually see the bigger power tubes. I don't know of any amp that has a solid state pre-amp with a tube power amp stage so I'd say if you see 2, 4, 6, or 8 large tubes in the back, it's probably an all tube rig. I'd really check that out before I commit though.

[Juha T]

How do I tell if an amp is all tube? Do they say so in the specs?

They certainly do, like "all tube", and even list pre- and power-amp tubes. In a store somebody may try to sell an amp with tube preamp as a tube amp. As far as know it is not necessarily a bad choise, neither are solid state amps. It is more a matter of taste. If you buy a solid state amp that costs as much as a good tube amp you get quality sound.

Google 'Fender amp', ... , 'Xxxxx amp' and you find more info you need.

Oops, the same quote ... took time to write some rows ...

Juha

[holmis63]

Patrick!

Did you say that the super twin reverbs got a litle weight to them? Mine weigh in at 49 kg!

But they are nice and at low prices too, i´ve taimed mine with twoo yellow yackets and it sounds real good, but the weight, i´m hurting my back every time i have to put it in the trunk of my Beemer!

I´m out for a blues deluxe reverb or a pro junior, have giged a few times on both of them and they sounded real nice at reasonable volumes. If the weight wouldn´t be an issue to me, i wouldn´t bather too go for a smaller Fender tube amp, and that is the thing fore me, Fender tube amps!

[porkpie]

+1 for the Hot Rod Deluxe. I've been using one for the last 6 years in all sizes of venues and IMO you can't beat it for tone, volume and portability. It is all tubes. The only mod I did was change the speaker to a Celestion Vintage 30 for a smoother distorted tone. You can also add a second speaker cabinet if you want. There is an active Hot Rod Deluxe community on the web that offers all sorts of mods and help.

[wakuhn1]

Hey Chuck, I know you're looking for a tube amp, but have you ever tried a Roland Cube 60? I use one for my smaller gigs and it works great. You can also find them for reasonable prices used or on fleabay.

I use it a lot for jazz, but have also used it for fusion stuff. I happened to try one on a whim one day, and bought one the following day.

Sure, nothing can replicate that all tube sound. But you may be suprised with this little amp. It can be used in various situations.

Just thought I would let you know about this one as well.

Bill

[Roland_G303]

Patrick!

Did you say that the super twin reverbs got a litle weight to them? Mine weigh in at 49 kg!

But they are nice and at low prices too, i´ve taimed mine with twoo yellow yackets and it sounds real good, but the weight, i´m hurting my back every time i have to put it in the trunk of my Beemer!

I´m out for a blues deluxe reverb or a pro junior, have giged a few times on both of them and they sounded real nice at reasonable volumes. If the weight wouldn´t be an issue to me, i wouldn´t bather too go for a smaller Fender tube amp, and that is the thing fore me, Fender tube amps!

Hi Holmis,

I was referring to the weight of the Hot Rod Deluxe...I hear you on the weight of the Super Twin Reverb, thank goodness mine has wheels .  Have you ever tried a Vibrolux?  They sell new for around $1100, but their sound is so fat, especially in a bluesy situation. 

Fender Vibrolux

I love the clarity you get with Fender amps and I love the headroom of the Super Twin Reverb, because of all the effects I use.  It doesn't distort at high volumes which is great for a pedal nut .

Patrick

[holmis63]

Patrick!

Thanks for the advice, i´ll try out the vibrolux before i decide what amp to go for!

For me it´s a litle different, i prefere Fender amps cause of the clear and bright sound to! But i like when they brake up if the git volume is set at max to, no pedals at all in a perfect world.

The yellow yacket mod did the trick with the super twin reverb but the weight...

[KD]

Chucke, if you want to stay under $500, the 30W Peavey Classic 30 is a nice 12" tube amp. The only problem is there is no protection covering the tubes when you're packing the equipment. They do sell after market grates the cover the tubes or with your handy work you could fab something up. If you're talking Fender money, Rivera makes some very good 12" club sized amps. I have the 30-12 which is absolutely quiet in clean and will overdrive nicely. It has a high and low gain input. I paid somewhere between $600-800 I think. I did a lot of searching on eBay and when I found something interesting researched it farther. Right now there is a 45W Rivera Clubster selling for $690 BIN. These sell for $1100+ new. See Ebay Item Number #250291578200.

[ChuckE99]

KD, I've read some good stuff on the Peavey's too. My current amp is a vintage (1983) Peavey Special, 65W, solid state, but it just doesn't do it for me in the sound department. Still, I bought the thing brand new and it's lasted all these years without a problem. I'd be comfortable getting a Peavey tube, I think. A guy on our local CraigsList has a Peavey 20 Tube amp (the predecessor to the 30) for sale for $300. I'm trying to get a hold of him to go check it out. If I can get it for $250 I might pull the trigger. (If it sounds good, that is.)