Flta wound vs. Round wound

[bobzilla]

there's other types of strings, besides the flats/rounds.

[BCy2k]

"Does your finger actually touch the fretboard when playing?"

yes, certainly.
Why?
Is that wrong or whacky?

God, I hope not.

Listen, when you're doing vibrato crap or just really digging into a note, how would one even contemplate not having the finger meet the wood.
Granted it's so close behind the steel fret but still, to me, you touch wood.

No Bob

That's not what I asked at all. I asked are you pressing so hard that the STRING touches the finger board. Of course your finger touches the finger board. Hence the name. Jeeez I've been playing for over 30 years and taught guitar in college. Give me a little credit - I sort of have a clue about these things.

My point in asking is there's virtually no way you could or should be pressing so hard that the actual string rubs against the finger board itself. If you were pressing that hard you'd be so out of tune it would be hilarious. If you're playing a guitar that's either fretless, or has frets that are so badly worn down that they're barely there (and at this point it would have to be terribly obvious they should be replaced) then you'd probably want to think about flat wounds if you're into playing guitars with very little, or no frets at all. I know at least one guy who actually plays fretless guitar - it's out there but whatever.

I've heard a few fiddle players that I wish had frets though.

[bobzilla]

BC, I swear I didn't mean any offense at all.
My response to your question was obviously from my lack of complete understanding of the question, that's all and I truly thank you for your input/insight.

Listen, I don't even consider myself a "guitar player."
I consider myself a "guitar owner."

To me, Clapton (and Patrick) are "guitar players."

that's why some of my questions are so lame.

I never took lessons, don't know what all those dots or musical notes are when folks read music, dunno half the names of the chords.
I don't know scales, I don't know theory. Nothing, Zuilch so...
you'll have to excuse my lame questions and responses. If you can.

I have however written over 700 songs and a few of them are decent, I imagine because folks certainly like to steal them, other folks record/release them, I've been on various albums with worldwide distribution and on the radio from NY to L.A. and I've played with...

Steve Howe, Melissa Etheridge, Great White, Joan Jett and a few others, oh yeah, Artimus from Skynyrd.
Please note, I only played with them because I was hanging out with them for short bursts of time, mostly in my job capacities in the past at the record co. I worked for but... still.

In any event, I am NOT a guitar player in the wildest stretch of the imagination.
Guitar owner, I am pretty good at.
Songwriter, I'm very good at.

So, that said...
I apologize.

[bobzilla]

BC, here's a stupid question actually, based on what you said and... my apology in advance...

how does ones finger hit the fretboard whilst playing  ....but not the string.... when the finger is pressing down on the string?

My diminished capacities tell me that would be a physical impossibility because it's the string that's closest to the fretboard, not the finger and they both. by nature of the beast, must come in contact with the wood directly behind the metal fret.

The string is between the finger and the fretboard.
So... now I'm totally confused.

If I find out I've been playing guitar for 40+ years, the wrong way or some whacky way, I'll be very disappointed with myself.

See what no lessons, no nothing can do to a fellow?
learn your lesson here kids, take guitar lessons (I guess!)

[BCy2k]

BC, I swear I didn't mean any offense at all.

No offense taken at all Bob - and no apology needed. I just wanted to clarify what I was asking and why. I really like to be of help whenever I can. There are no lame questions as far as I'm concerned. There are plenty things I don't know squat about too.

And don't worry, I'm not one of those elitist guitar fascists either. You know, the kind who like to sit in judgement of others and look down on those who don't play or listen to the same kind of stuff as they do. One of my best buddies can't read a note of music - but he's in a much higher income tax bracket than I am because he tours & records with a couple fairly high profile international acts.

Heck I'm forming a band now with a guy who doesn't read music either, but he plays and sings his butt off. I try to keep as balanced a perspective of things as I can.

Just don't try to tell me Steve Vai played with DLR for free. 

[bobzilla]

BC, truth is, you're one of my favorite ICW posters and I always enjoy your posts.
I value your opinions and am willing to broadcast my own embarrassment and lameness sometimes, if it gets me the info I'm after... eventually.
Yopur posts are always good and on many levels.

[BCy2k]

BC, here's a stupid question actually, based on what you said and... my apology in advance...

how does ones finger hit the fretboard whilst playing  ....but not the string.... when the finger is pressing down on the string?

LOL - there are no stupid questions, and STOP apologizing!!!!!!

Okay - typically, finger presses string, string stops at the fret. Depending on the fret height, the two halves of the fingertip (which are now split by the string itself) may touch the finger board. You know the lines or grooves left in your fingertip after you release a note or chord - your fingertip will sort of wrap around the string there and may (or may not) touch the actual finger board. It depends on the fret height, how hard you press, what your fingertips are like, technique etc.

In the scenario you were originally asking about - for the string to actually be pressed down into the fingerboard between the frets while not impossible, would require a fairly serious amount of downward pressure which would actually bend the string similar to a scalloped fingerboard. This would cause the string to go way sharp and probably be more painful than normal.

When I look at the fret height from fret to fret on most of my Ibanez guitars there's a sort of bridging that happens when I press a note. The fret for the note I'm playing AND the one behind it - in other words when I play a note at 5th, it rings from 5th fret up but the string actually rests on both 5th AND 4th - this is the bridging thing I'm talking about. If I try to press that string between 4th and 5th so hard that it touches the finger board - it's not impossible, but it's really hard to get that string to actually make contact with the finger board and actually rub into the wood. It's more likely to dig deeper into the flesh of my fingertip. And go noticeably sharp in the process.

Whoa, long winded answer eh?  I hope this kind of makes sense.

[paul_a]

Yes roundwounds will wear the frets and fingerboard more than flatwounds but..... flatwounds sound very 'dull'. Some jazzers like their dark sound but to my ear its like putting a blanket over the guitar. Others may disagree.

[bobzilla]

Thanx BC and Paul and.....

BC, that does make sense and furthermore,
I can now safely say that I must really put alot of pressure on those strings when I play.
Especially for chords, I should say chords rather than single notes but even with the single notes, I'm certainly putting enough pressure for both string and finger to come into contact with the board.
Does this effect the tone or the intonation rather?
Well, it certainly appears that it does from what you say however, I've never noticed that.

hey, maybe that's why I'm not that much of a player then, maybe if I loosened my "grip" or however you wanna say it, I'd play better and simultaneously save my fretboard alot of grief.

After all these years, it's hard to change though and if I worried about things like this (and bothering to actually learn the correct way to play), I'd most likely give it up and loose my enjoyment.
You know, I never set out to be a "guitar player" but I certainly did set out to have fun with guitars and that's the furthest my thought processes ever went in regard to playing the darn things.

I can see in my mind though that if the "grip" or pressure I'm exerting on the strings whilst playing was diminished, maybe I could move around quicker on the neck.
But, then again, there's a thought process involved there and I'd shy away from it, simply because I don't want thought processes (chord names, theory, scales, those little dots they put in there on those 4 or 5 straight lines going across with a "G" clef or something to the left...for folks to read music... whatever  etc.) to be in my head at all, let alone when I'm playing guitar...
To me, all that would just muck the whole thing up and take the simple enjoyment out of it for me.

back on topic, I think there's alot of neat insight from you guys in here, which I appreciate.

hey, this is probaly MY theory on playing guitar...
hit the note, if it's wrong, bend it til it's right.
Embarrassing for sure, nonetheless, I've gotten an unexplainable amount of fun out of playing these buggers for many many years, using that logic.
And I use the word logic there loosely.
I've written over 700 songs without input.
I always figured....Birds can sing.
And what I mean by that is...
every morning we hear the birds chirpping their beautiful songs and they never took a single lesson, why should I?
I also believe you can either play or you can't and no amount of schooloing will enable someone to play if they can't.
Will their skills improve?
Certainly but these folk coul;d only reach a certain amount of proficiency, even if they took lessons for 25 years.
meanwhile, I know guys who picked up guitars, never before having one in hand and were playing hendrix the next day. I was in a band with that guy and to this day, he was just the most amazing guy I've ever seen play and he don't know the first thing about it.
My little brother is the same way.
I to this day always thought that what ever came out of me, be it notes on the guitar or songs, were gonna stand on their own merit.
They were either good or bad, because I created them, not because someone taught me how to do it.
And that's EXACTLY how I want it, EXACTLY.
I can tell you, I've been happy guitar wise with these bizarre lines of thought an d so... it works for me, although I do realize what I just said is basically stupid and don't make much sense at all.

Still, it works.

On topic:

Above is a DEFINITE reply stating the rounds dig in more than the flats and see, you ask, you get good info around here. And the variations on that particular post are enlightening as well.

[BCy2k]

I can see in my mind though that if the "grip" or pressure I'm exerting on the strings whilst playing was diminished, maybe I could move around quicker on the neck.
But, then again, there's a thought process involved there and I'd shy away from it, simply because I don't want thought processes (chord names, theory, scales, those little dots they put in there on those 4 or 5 straight lines going across with a "G" clef or something to the left...for folks to read music... whatever  etc.) to be in my head at all, let alone when I'm playing guitar...
To me, all that would just muck the whole thing up and take the simple enjoyment out of it for me.

Oh trust me - the last thing I want to do when I'm playing or writing is think about any of that stuff. Seriously. You've got to go with your musical instinct - at that moment - just run with things as they come at you. I had a great instructor who told me the study of theory is the study of "DE-COMPOSING" music - LOL! And he's right. Taking pieces apart and trying to understand what's going on that makes it sound so cool - after the fact. There really are good reasons to study all that stuff and know about it. But in the end you sort of need to internalize it and forget about it at the same time. It's amazing how often I have to tell my students, "Stop thinking about it so hard and just play it!" But it usually works.

When it doesn't there's always the cattle prod. 

[gemberbier]

Nice typo (again) in the subject line... ay? That's "FLAT" not "FLTA"

If you meant "FLETA", I'd go for it!
He was the Stradivarius among the guitar builders
Let's see what Google can find on Ignacio Fleta...
Hey, replicas??? affordable???
http://www.newmillguitar.com/hill.html
Yummie!

Btw, I've been thinking about the metal digging into the wood and frets all the time. I think it's also a matter of playing technique, how much force and aggression we use while playing. These blues pull-ups can really dig a hole in the fretboard. Personally I treat my guitars very gently, but I've seen several with fretboard holes in the 2nd and 3rd position. Often the wood digging is done by the wound 3rd strings on acoustics. But I wouldn't consider flatwounds on a flattop, because they suck acoustically, IMO they are strictly jazz.

So, the problem of the string choice occurs mainly on thinlines like the ES-335, Ibanez AS, AM, AC models, Aria TA models.
If you go for blues, pick .010 with a plain 3rd. And if you go for jazz, you may pick .011 with a wound 3rd (round or flat).

It is also important to recognize your own style and force. I play .009 on the strat, but I know a guy who plays .013 on the strat. Other strings just don't survive.



Ginger

[bobzilla]

BC, I'm glad you said that.

I think I neglected to mention in my lengthy post above....
when I was basically saying...
you can either play or you can't....
I neglected to mention....
I CAN'T!

Some folks are born with it.
It would be a struggle for me if I ever endeavored to try to play guitar so...
I just never bothered with it.

I just picked them up, whacked away at them and it's been the greatest source of joy for me, for my entire life.

Based on responses above to flat/vs. round...
I'm pretty sure I'd be more comfortable then with using neither flat nor wound strings on the necks I am concerned with.
I'll use those DR coated strings because they're "soft" in a way... they last a long time and they gotta be better than rounds diggin' in.
Then, it's easy enough to whip 'em off for a show and revert back to the DR's for mucking about the house.