Let's talk live guitar Rigs

[BCy2k]

Hi All -

I'm going to start gigging again on a semi-regular basis pretty soon and I'm going to gradually build the leanest, meanest live rig I possibly can. My main criteria are lightweight, fast to set up & break down, versatile, and it must still sound completely righteous.   I also want it to be stereo capable. The venue sizes will run anywhere from pretty small (100-200 seats) to really big (1000+). I know - I'm not asking for much. 

Anyway, I just bought a pair of these Rocktron Velocity S-112 speaker cabinets to get things started. I was wondering if anyone here might use these or know anything about them. I'm mostly going on user reviews and my prior experience with Rocktron as a brand. These seem like a good start. I've already got enough of a rig to get started in mono.

I'm interested in a midi controllable pre-amp/multi fx processor combination type unit. I used to use a Marshall JMP1/TC Electronic G-Force into a Marshall 9100 power amp, and a Marshall 1922 2x12 cab wired for stereo. It was small. It sounded righteous. But lifting that rack was a total ball buster - it probably weighed 90 pounds. Also - while the G-Force was a truly excellent sounding unit - it had a massive flaw in live situations. It did not have parrallel processors (like the Rocktron Intellifex does) so when you made a sound change on it there was a good 300 to 800 ms gap in the sound change depending on the patch. I hated that. I need INSTANT sound changes, and the exceedingly expensive TC G-Force could not do that. Trust me, I tried EVERYTHING to work around this problem. The exceedingly affordable Rocktron Intellifex could make instant, gapless sound changes. Lesson learned.

Anyway, I'm taking a fairly serious look at the Rocktron Prophesy II (or the first version) - anybody have any experience with this unit? I'll need to check the midi spec on it but it seems like an interesting unit. I listened to the demos on their site and it has potential. Still researching this and a number of other options.

Ideas? Thoughts? Suggestions?

[Roland_G303]

Hi Bob,

I'm not really sure on how to answer what setup would work best, but are you looking for a large array of sounds?  I've heard good reviews on the Roland VG-99 (although I haven't tried one personally).  I hear the tracking is instant with no latency or delay.  You could run that directly through a PA and it's pretty compact.  I'm also sure you could run it via a midi pedalboard to switch between effects on the fly.

I'm not sure if that helps any...

Patrick

[BCy2k]

My friend Neale just got that VG-99 and the GK3 - he's pretty jazzed about it actually. Sounds like he's planning on using it some on his upcoming tour too. Yea - I'm not sure if I can give up on the all tube signal path for live stuff though. I'm waiting to hear how Neale likes his. I'm kind of surprised he's giving it a go because were both sort of old school tube purists at heart. It's one thing to sparingly use amp models in a studio situation but I just don't know about doing it live.

I'm seriously looking at this Rocktron Prophesy ATM. It does have a real tube in it's pre-amp along with all the "bread & butter" effects I'd need with assignable realtime midi control. I've done the hybrid tube pre-amp with the solid state power amp thing before and it's been okay, but when I tried the tube power amp on the back end it really made a noticeable difference sound-wise to me. More creamy, less brittle. Unfortunately, it also made a noticeable difference in the weight of the rack too.   

So, I'm slightly conflicted. I have a spare Alesis RA-100 studio monitor power amp that I'm going to try, but I have to admit I'm skeptical as to wether I'll actually like it in a guitar rig. I'm thinking that a Mesa Boogie 50/50 power amp (all tube of course) behind the Prophesy pre-amp would be interesting. I can't find any specs on it's weight though. I'm sure it's substantial.

For a while there I was seriously considering buying a Mac book or a Mac book pro and just using Guitar Rig 3 with that NI pedal board that they make for it. I could just buy a full range keyboard amp to monitor with and run a line to the PA for bigger venues. Lot's of guys are trying this from what I hear. Again - I like it in my studio, but I'm not sure I'd be okay with it live.

It's sort of weird. I make my living using music technology (almost entirely computer based) but when it comes to guitar amps and playing live I'm still a tube/valve guy I guess. When I turn around there has to be something there with knobs on it - and a speaker cabinet moving enough air to make my pants flap.    I don't want to see a laptop. It just ain't natural.    We'll see.

Supposedly my first gig will be August 1st - I don't even know who is on the gig yet. We're supposed to be opening for somebody. It's just one set so it's shouldn't be too big a deal. Famous last words . . . 

[Roland_G303]

I'm a tube guy myself and use a late 70's Fender Super Twin Reverb.  180W Tube (loud as heck! ) and the heaviest combo amp I've ever seen or lifted .  Thank goodness for bandmates.  I've never been a big rack guy, but I do have a crazy pedal collection that seems to always be expanding. 

I've never found a digital simulator that has truly pulled off the tube tone.  I do really like the solid state JC-120 as it's got a huge chorus sound that I haven't heard from any other amp.  I'm sure you'll find the perfect rig and I wish I could be out in Denver to see a show.

Patrick

[BCy2k]

Speaking of twins, I was also looking at both the Cyber Twin and the Cyber Deluxe as well.

When I gigged regularly a little over 7 years ago I had 2 rigs. Sometimes I used a Mesa Boogie MK4 with a couple stomp boxes and a 2 space rack. Other times I used the stereo Marshall rig I mentioned on the first post above. Even the Boogie was heavy for it's size. But it had casters so it was quite tolerable whenever I had a load-in where I could roll it.

Rack systems have their pros & cons for sure. If I go with this Rocktron thing I'll only have a 4 space rack and a couple 1x12's and it'll be stereo & small at 50 watts per side. I think I can deal with that as long as I can get good sounds out of it. I'm winging it TBH.

I saw those pic's of your pedal board Patrick. That's a lot of voodoo to keep track of. That's sort of why I got into the midi controlled rack thing.

I used to have a UE-405, a couple AD-202's and some Peavey 2x12 amp though I can't remember the model. All analog and warm. I had to step on 3 or 4 things to bring up a complex sound change and I was actually pretty comfortable with it back then, but when I learned how to do all these multi-sound changes with one single stomp I was quickly converted to the ways of midi. Then when I got into midi real time controllers and all that - I liked that even more.

I even got a Tom Scholtz Rockman Midi Octopus and the remote loop box so I could control non-midi effects and channel switching on my non-midi amps. Old habits die hard I guess. That unit works like a charm. Talk about vintage and rare - they only made them for 1 year.

Anyway - I guess the only thing I've really made my mind up about is these speakers I just bought. The rest is not entirely decided yet.

[toms_korber]

If I was to in your shoes I'd certainly look at one of the newer floorboard/pre-amp/multi-FX/amp-sim combinations like

VOX TONELAB LE
BOSS GT-10
LINE6 POD XT LIVE

the Vox even got a tube in it!

Just add a (maybe even solid state) power amp and cabinets and you're good to go. No pre-amp/FX rack, no extra floor board and the need to run a long MIDI cable in an "electronically hostile" enviroment. Some of those even got programmable loops and switches so you can include e.g. your favorite distortion pedal. And if the power amp blows up, you could always switch on the amp-sim and run it straight thru the PA.
Just make sure that nobody his spills beer on it or that the drummer doesn't step on it... 

[BCy2k]

Thanks Toms - that's a good idea on the Vox ToneLab. Last summer I did a gig (my only gig in '07 - LOL) where another band came in and did a Pink Floyd cover and their guitarist used one. I thought he got some great sounds out of it. It's kind of a big unit. And you're right about the drummer too. 

[BCy2k]

Live rig update.

I scored a Mesa Boogie 50/50 power amp and I set it up using my Dean Markley RM-80-DR as a preamp (it has a tube preamp) into the Intellifex in stereo. The result so far using only the low power setting on the 50/50 (which brings it down to an unbelievably loud 15 watts per side) exceeds my expectations. You know how it feels when you are getting a good sound that just makes you want to play & play & play? That's what I'm talking about.

These new speakers sound really good to me too. The reviews about them at Musician's Friend are right for the most part. They sound really huge and yet the definition is very noticeable. I'm VERY pleased with these and I'm seriously thinking about getting another pair.

I've got an original Rocktron Prophesy on it's way, but I'm probably not going to have it dialed in enough to use it on the gig this Friday. If I can I will.

This gig will be our second rehearsal - LOL. We're opening for a very popular local Jazz group named Dotsero. I've known the core of Dotsero (Dave & Steve) forever it seems. I'm looking forward to surprising them - I've mostly been known and regarded as an 'out of live circulation' studio hermit for the last six years or so. The guys I'm playing with are great and I'm really looking forward to it. I have another gig next weekend with a totally different band. More cramming to do . . .

[Roland_G303]

That's awesome to hear (no pun intended ) that you found a set up that really has that 'WOW' factor.  Best of luck with the gigs.  Dotsero has a smooth jazz sound and they sound tight from the sample I heard on their website.  Is that the style of music you guys will be playing?

Patrick

[michaelkaufman]

I have the Dean Markley RM-150-DR.  2 channels, 150 watts, small rack-mountable unit with 2 speaker out jacks.  Very nice & compact!  I recently had mine overhauled.  High quality components and great sound.  I use a high-ended 12" EV12L speaker.  Very clean sound and can handle very loud volumes with no problem.

mk

[BCy2k]

That's truly a great series of Dean Markley amps. I bought mine in '80 or '81 and it's still rock solid reliable and great sounding. Mine looks like it was dropped out of a moving truck from all the road abuse it's endured. It has a 4 ohm Celestion G12M-70 in it. Of course I've pulled the amp out of the 1x12 combo enclosure and mounted it in the rack for now. That's another thing I've always loved about these amps - the ability to use it as a combo or in a rack. Very cool.

Mesa Boogies and Marshalls have come and gone but I kept this Dean Markley for about 28 years. I guess that says it all. Well, not really. It just means it's a lot easier to get top $ for Boogies and Marshalls. 

Patrick - we're mostly playing a mix of old pop/rock & top 40 whatever stuff. We're only playing 1 set, in and out. I may stay and check Dotsero out. They're really good at what they do, but I can only take so much "smooth jazz". Dave really doesn't take that many guitar solos, otherwise I'd be more into checking it out. He's a great player. Steve (sax) is a monster soloist though. They were writing about him in Downbeat magazine when he was only 16 years old.

[Roland_G303]

They're really good at what they do, but I can only take so much "smooth jazz".

You don't find yourself watching the Weather Channel for hours and hours because of it's riveting music ?  I agree with ya' on the smooth jazz .

What guitars have you decided to play for the gigs?  You have many choices .

Patrick

[BCy2k]

Which makes me wonder - why not have appropriate music for certain regions and current weather conditions?

If there's a hurricane or a hail storm coming, you play ultra heavy death metal - not this frikkin' pedestrian Bambi jazz. If you're going to play jazz for stuff like this make it something from B*tches Brew or Mahavisnu Orchestra. And on warm summer days I'd be okay with having attractive female meteorologists wearing something equally appropriate like a nice bikini or something similar, or nothing. Why not? It's cable for crying out loud. But I digress . . .

The gig is outdoors so I'll use my PL1770 and probably break in the new SB70. I guess I'd probably use these even if it were indoors 

[cmangeot]

BC,

I use a Mesa 50/50 with a TC electronics Gmajor and a Mesa TriAxis.

I play jazz, rock, blues, fusion, metal, etc, etc, and although you may not want to use that type of preamp, you cant beat the G Major for the money...200 bucks.  All effects are WORLD CLASS.  the only issue I have had with it it in 6 years is the Triaxis can be a bit too hot for it, i have to manage my input and output levels.  I use the Roland GR 20 with the pickup on my MC200.  Sweet.

Just my two cents....I have watched my friends spend thousands over the years while I used a Digitech gsp21 until about 8 years ago.....hahahahahaa. 

[tubescorcher]

I'm using a cmatmods compressor into a fulltone gt 500-micro vibe- tc electronics noise suppressor,
Then I have Line 6 tonecore Flange-echo park-reverb running through my effects loop. This runs into my Marshall
30th Anniversary combo. I've lately been going direct with a Vox Tone Lab LE pedal board. It sounds incredible and is
a lot easier to lug around than the amp and pedal board. I also trigger a GR-1 and GR-33 for some songs. It's a lot of work
trying to play synth as well as normal guitar parts!!! I can't say I recommend it!
Peace!