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Henryrayker
Username: Henryrayker

Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Sunday, September 17, 2006 - 1:44 pm:   

Ok, so a friend of mine just gave me an Ibanez Blazer bass. He was also giving me some random stuff (a strat style body and a strat style neck...cleaning out his closet). The bass is in some sad shape. 1 tuner is missing, all the pots and jacks are missing, and the pickguard's screws are all gone, but everything else is original. The actual body has been written on with pen (front and back) and is really dirty (looking under the pickguard can attest to that).

I looked up some information on the neckplate number (D805091) and gathered that this was the 5091st one made in April of 1980. I have looked around, though, and can't find one that looks like mine anywhere. Most of the basses from around that time have split pickups...this one has just a fat bar. They also have a fairly different headstock with a different logo (mine doesn't have the two lines on each side).

I'm looking to (at least partially) restore this guitar. What I'm looking for is a guess at what model this guitar is, as well as a wiring diagram. Perhaps a place that I can purchase the pots/jack/tuner from also would be nice.
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Henryrayker
Username: Henryrayker

Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Sunday, September 17, 2006 - 1:58 pm:   

sorry for the double post, but here are some pictures
entire guitar
neck
body
body no pickguard
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Ibnzplyr
Username: Ibnzplyr

Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Sunday, September 17, 2006 - 4:45 pm:   

Hi Henry: Just wanted to let you know I have the same exact bass model. It sounds incredible, like early U2-- love that sound. That humbucker on this bass is well-known as a splendid one.

These basses with this particular pickup turn up now and then on ebay, and they are usually priced very low for what they/how they sound.

Sorry, I don't know about missing parts. The tuning pegs might show up on ebay, or maybe allparts.com or stewmac might have the equivalent. These companies should certainly have the pots and output jack.

If no one has a schematic, I can try to post a pic of my electronics chamber.

It is worth it, I think, to put in a little money to fix it up as long as the neck is straight. These sound great! If you don't want to do all the work, you might consider keeping the pickup and putting it in another bass.
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Henryrayker
Username: Henryrayker

Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Sunday, September 17, 2006 - 5:01 pm:   

Honestly, I love building and rebuilding guitars. The neck is straight, as far as I can tell, and it was treated well, aside from the fact that it had been written on and everything. If you could post a pic of your electronics chamber, that would be great. I can work from that. Also, do you know what size pots are on yours? If not, that's fine; a little more digging won't kill me.

As far as fixing this up, I will probably leave the body as-is. I may or may not try to repair/replace the decal on the headstock (probably not). As far as the electronics are concerned, however, I really want to get this baby sounding as sweet as I can.
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Ibnzplyr
Username: Ibnzplyr

Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Sunday, September 17, 2006 - 6:38 pm:   

Hello Henry:

I have a picture small enough to upload per website requirements, but even though I tried three different browsers, the directions aren't working for me. The directions say that a dialogue box will appear after I put the tag in my message.... well... it doesn't.

Anyone know how I can do this?

Thanks
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Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Sunday, September 17, 2006 - 6:45 pm:   

Nice piece of wood, Henry.
It has "potential", so to say.
What you need now is a picture of an all original Blazer Bass, so that you know what the potmeter knobs look like.
The electric parts themselves you should buy of good quality, no cheap Korean sh..
I guess Mr Roadstar can advice you on what parts to use, since the Roadster/Roadstar/Roadstar II and the Blazer are very much related.

I get all warm of the sight of this blonde.
But I had to stop playing the bass because of a left hand finger/tendon/wrist injury. The distance nut-fourth fret of an average bass is about 32 mm longer than on a guitar.

My physiotherapist adviced me to type a lot and play at least the guitar to keep my left hand in shape.

The bass was always my second instrument. (The mandolin my third and now my second). I've always kept a special place in my heart for it, I even built one myself.

If you can't find an original Ibanez tuner, perhaps you can use the tuner of an old trashed Hondo.
They are very much alike, but the instruments are less collectible / valuable.
But first ask / look around what people have in their parts bins before you start stripping Hondos or similar cheapos and end up with all this useless wood.


Ginger
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Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Sunday, September 17, 2006 - 6:49 pm:   

Found this:

Posted on Saturday, February 28, 2004 - 08:34 am:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JPB:

"The whole picture uploading process isn't that complicated. Just break it down into several steps, get used to each one (trial and error is the only way to go), and the result will be success!

Step 1 is taking the pictures and getting them on your hard drive (or some kind of device that your computer recognizes as a drive letter). Sounds like you've got that down.

Step 2 is making the images small enough to be accepted by the Discussion Board software. The 50k size is an arbitrary limit that I set to help conserve disk space on the website. The only thing you need is a program that will resample or compress your digital picture files. These programs are typically called "bitmap editors". If you don't have one, just say so and I'll try to point you to something cheap and easy.

Step 3 is writing your message and including the special tag. The tag tells the Discussion Board software to stop and pick up a file, that is strored on your computer, and upload it along with the text. It may not seeem so, but this really is the simplest of all 3 steps.

The simplest form of the image tag is:
my picture

put this in the body of your message wherever you want the picture to appear. NOTE: you can put anything you like between the curly braces to remind you what image you intend to go in this spot (remember, you can put multiple images in a message, you need someway to keep track of them). This info is NOT used in anyway to locate your image.

When your done with our message, press the Preview/Post Message button, as usual. You'll get to proofread your message. However, you'll only see a placeholder image like this:


where your picture is suposed to be. Don't worry, everything is working just fine.

When you press the Post this Message button you'll get a new screen called the Image/Attachment Upload Form. This will have a textbox (or one for each image you included in your message) to enter the location of the picture on your computer.

Press the Browse... button and then use the Upload File dialog box to navigate to the drive and folder where you image is, select the image file and press OK. You should be back at the Image/Attachment Upload Form and the textbox will contain the path to the image file. Press the Upload button and your message will be processed including sending the image along.

That's it. Just remember: keep files under 50k (using JPG files with a med. to large amount of compression will help), spell the image tag properly (curly braces, not parens or brackets) and you should be ok.

Let me know if you have any more questions or problems.

JohnS
ICW"

Give it a try!

Ginger
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Ibnzplyr
Username: Ibnzplyr

Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Sunday, September 17, 2006 - 6:49 pm:   

BTW, the pots on mine are 250K. If we can't get the pic up, I can answer your questions.
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Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Sunday, September 17, 2006 - 6:53 pm:   

Ibnzplyr,
look back 2 posters from here!
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Ibnzplyr
Username: Ibnzplyr

Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Sunday, September 17, 2006 - 6:54 pm:   

okay, we get the dialogue box after we click post this message-- thanks John
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Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Sunday, September 17, 2006 - 6:56 pm:   

The eagle has landed!
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Ibnzplyr
Username: Ibnzplyr

Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Sunday, September 17, 2006 - 6:57 pm:   

Thanks, John. I thought I should be getting the dialogue box before clicking "post this message," which seems so final, but, as you wrote, the dialogue box comes AFTER that.

I hope this helps!

Scott
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Ibnzplyr
Username: Ibnzplyr

Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Sunday, September 17, 2006 - 7:04 pm:   

I think the directions for uploading files on this website are incorrect and I suggest that they be replaced with John's directions, and for compensation John be given a free, new Ibanez guitar of his choice, except the series with the huge holes in them, as they are too expensive, are defective (have a huge hole), and he probably wood not [pun intended] want one anyone.
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Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Sunday, September 17, 2006 - 7:19 pm:   

Both directions are from the same man, webmaster JohnS.
I found these using the search engine.
I had difficulty understanding the first instructions too.
I guess it has something to do with the available space for instructions, or with leaving out "redundant" information about certain steps. For a webmaster a lot of info is redundant. For us mortals it can mean a revelation.


Ginger
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Ibnzplyr
Username: Ibnzplyr

Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Sunday, September 17, 2006 - 7:29 pm:   

I think the directions on the site say you'll get your dialogue box after clicking the "Preview/Post Message" square. But that's not true. You get that box in a later step, after you click the "Post this Message" square. I think that's why I see people have trouble.

When you wrote about hitting "Post Message", and after that getting the dialogue box, I think you strayed from the incorrect info on the site. And that's how I was able to post the message. Following the directions on the site as they are, I never would have been able to post the pic.

So what non Jem model would you like?

Scott
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Ibnzplyr
Username: Ibnzplyr

Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Sunday, September 17, 2006 - 7:40 pm:   

http://www.ibanezcollectors.com/ImageFAQ.html#FAQPictures

Here is where I got the directions for uploading pictures. The directions passed on by Ginger in the above thread are different. So maybe there are two pages of info about uploading pics on this site that have different information.

This would explain a lot.

If so, could someone delete the page (url listed above) above from the site as the info is not correct.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Thanks!
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Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Sunday, September 17, 2006 - 7:52 pm:   

I don't know what to say...

Are you serious?

I was only helping a bit...


Ginger
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Ibnzplyr
Username: Ibnzplyr

Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Sunday, September 17, 2006 - 8:00 pm:   

Ginger, seriously, what is the url of the page where you got the info you posted above? Let's see if it's different from the one I posted.

So many people have had trouble posting photos on this site. I think we are close to an explanation and solution.

Scott
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Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Sunday, September 17, 2006 - 8:14 pm:   

I just used the search engine, as I remembered reading a better explanation of how it works from one of our members, don't remember if it was Ibanezfreak1960 or some other guy.
Did this yesterday too, because I found the explanation good.
Then I found a thread in which JohnS gave a (second) explanation, just as understandable as the one I was looking for.
I selected the text and copied it to the clipboard.
Then I went back to this thread and pasted it in the dialogue box.
There is not a special url, it's part of the discussions.


Ginger
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Ibnzplyr
Username: Ibnzplyr

Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Sunday, September 17, 2006 - 8:23 pm:   

Okay, webmaster please take note: it appears that the url

http://www.ibanezcollectors.com/ImageFAQ.html#FAQPictures


links to incorrect directions for attaching pics.

Please correct the information that's on that page to show that the dialogue appears after clicking on "Post this Message", not after clicking "Preview/Post Message".

No wonder why people commonly have trouble uploading photos.

Scott
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Henryrayker
Username: Henryrayker

Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Monday, September 18, 2006 - 7:51 am:   

One more question (I hope you see this!)

Do you know the value of that capacitor in there?
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Ibnzplyr
Username: Ibnzplyr

Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Monday, September 18, 2006 - 12:31 pm:   

The one that I can clearly read says:

M250KΩA
04K

Hope this helps-- Scott
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Ibnzplyr
Username: Ibnzplyr

Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Monday, September 18, 2006 - 12:33 pm:   

It didn't come out right-- I put in a special symbol, ohms, that got screwed up when it came through the net.
so the top line is M250K"ohms"A
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Johns
Username: Johns

Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Monday, September 18, 2006 - 12:55 pm:   

Thanks to Ibnzplyr, I'm going to take care of the Picture Uploading problem that was pointed out in this thread. Then I will remove the messages about it so that Henry's Blazer Bass queries don't get crowed out.

JohnS
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Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Monday, September 18, 2006 - 2:20 pm:   

That's not the value of a capacitor, but the value of the potentiometer.
The capacitor is soldered on the tone potmeter.
The value is in microfarad, not in Ohm.
So look for a small drop soldered on the tone pot, with a value followed by the Greek mu (looks like a u with a long descender) for example 0.047F.
So take another look, I must go now, my volleyball team is waiting for me.

Ginger
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Ibnzplyr
Username: Ibnzplyr

Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Tuesday, September 19, 2006 - 12:59 am:   

Sorry Henry and Ginger-- I only know the technical term, which is "red square thingy."

It's .1K
50/100

At least this is what it is on my specimen.

Henry, will this do the trick?

John, thank you for making the changes to the Upload Pic FAQ.

Scott
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Henryrayker
Username: Henryrayker

Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Tuesday, September 19, 2006 - 1:09 am:   

hrrmmm...a kilo-farad would be RIDICULOUS...but some caps don't always print the size on the casing. I'll probably just fool around with it until I get a tone that I like, I guess.

This is all moot until I can find that fourth tuning machine, which is turning out to be harder than I had hoped to find. Freakin' heart shaped handle. Without that, I can't progress anywhere.
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Ibnzplyr
Username: Ibnzplyr

Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Tuesday, September 19, 2006 - 2:34 am:   

It's point K, not K. You want the value on the red square thingy that's in the photo above, right?

Scott
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Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Tuesday, September 19, 2006 - 12:55 pm:   

I found an affordable new set of "Fender cloverleaf" shaped tuners for $28.-
http://www.guitarpartsusa.com/item--Bass-Guitar-Tuner-Fender-style--PROD315

Not the same, but it comes close.

A set of real Schallers are more expensive: $57.63
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Bass_tuners/Schaller_Bass_Machines.html

The problem is that they're all offered as complete sets.
enclosed Gotoh tuners are available individually, for $10.83 but they won't look good on your bass.

Perhaps you should ask around (shops/luthiers) for a single good old tuner from the parts bin.
You could also replace the whole set, permanently or temporarily.

As for the capacitor:
I'll have a look in my Roadstar II bass.

Right now I'm hungry... had to help the Mrs...
left her lights on... a few miles from here...


Ginger
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Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Tuesday, September 19, 2006 - 3:46 pm:   

I found the parts list and the wiring diagram of the Fender Precision Bass 1962.
The value of the capacitor used in this Fender bass that stood model for the Blazers and Roadstars with one split pickup is 0.1 F
http://www.fender.com/support/diagrams/pdfs/AV62PBASS/SD0190116CPg3.pdf

It is soldered as shown in this wiring diagram:

http://www.fender.com/support/diagrams/pdfs/AV62PBASS/SD0190116CPg2.pdf

The control function is as follows:
http://www.fender.com/support/diagrams/pdfs/AV62PBASS/SD0190116CPg4.pdf

I don't know if this old Blazer ever had chrome covers. Technically they have no function.


Kind greetz,

Ginger
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Beaker61
Username: Beaker61

Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 4:01 am:   

HI GUYS,
I'm new on here, but I have just bought a 1980 Blazer identical to this myself. I am a pro guitar repairer, so when I get the hood up on it I will post a full electronics spec based on my model for you.
Good luck finding a tuner, keep searching eBay. In the meantime get a set of decent vintage tuners and you should be ok.
Do you guys know the model number for this bass? and one more question, what's the difference between Blazers and Roadstars?
Cheers,
Mark.
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Henryrayker
Username: Henryrayker

Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 12:18 pm:   

I was considering going with a hipshot HB1, I believe, but it's with he clover key. They're 22 bucks for a single, though. I'm trying my hardest to hold out on the heart shape key, though.

Regardless of what I do, I want to find something that has a matching screw-hole and everything, just in case I find that original somewhere or something.

I'm also trying to find knobs similar to the originals. My bridge is very corroded (some places it's just exposed brass, as the plating is completely gone). I would like to find knobs in similar shape.

Maybe I'm just being too picky =\
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Ibnzplyr
Username: Ibnzplyr

Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 2:06 pm:   

I think the model number is BL700NT (nt = natural).

Scott
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Johns
Username: Johns

Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 8:26 pm:   

Ibnzplyr:

I haven't been able to find any catalogs that show this Blazer bass. The only pics of a BL700NT that I can find show a different headstock shape ("blade"-shaped, like the Roadster and Roadstar) and show the Super P4 split pickup. The pickup in the Blazer above looks like a Super 4.

This is the closest model I can find. It's from the 1980 German catalog. It's actually not even an Ibanez, per se. It's the Cimar brand Stinger. Check out the headstock shape, pickup and pickguard. Exactly the same as the Blazer, above.

Cimar_Stinger_Bass
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Ibnzplyr
Username: Ibnzplyr

Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 2:59 am:   

http://www.noahjames.com/vintagepage/blazbass.html

Ginger found this link to the Blazer basses in an Ibanez catalogue. The link's to Jim Donahue's site, I believe.

Click on the link, then look down below for the pics.

The Cimar does look close. Mine has a lot of grain like the Cimar pic.

Scott
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Ibnzplyr
Username: Ibnzplyr

Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 3:03 am:   

I looked more carefully, and the pickups look different. Maybe it's a BL(lower #) like BL 400, or something-- a one-pickup model.

Maybe someone has a fairly complete catalog from 1980.
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Beaker61
Username: Beaker61

Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 4:11 am:   

The plot thickens! A transition model maybe then, using the Cimar pickup and scratchplate, before settling on a more conventional 'P'style pickup?
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Henryrayker
Username: Henryrayker

Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 21, 2006 - 10:26 am:   

This looks exactly like the Cimar pictured in the catalogue. The pickup is the same (well, mine has 8 circular poles, whereas this one has 4 rectangular) The headstock is the same shape, and the decal is even the same rough shape. I'm guessing this particular bass isn't as common as I at first thought...

Also, I finally figured out what has been scrawled on the back of the bass...in all caps, it says, "the end is near" but that's mostly been warn off by playing it. The front has been blemished with "el medico" in pen. If I end up liking the sound of this bass, I'll probably leave it as is; I like the added character. If not, I'll probably have it refinished and try to sell it off. Given the state of the hardware, though, I'm hoping I like it :D
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Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Friday, September 22, 2006 - 4:45 pm:   

DON'T REFINISH IT!
This is a vintage instrument, that can always be restored in its original state as long as you leave the finish as it is: beautifully aged.

Just for now you need a few parts to make it playable. All of these operations are reversible!
A refinish isn't.

Of all parts you need, the pickup is the most expensive:
- Seymour Duncan $64-$109 (last one aged);
- Boston 42 = $53.35
- EMG 35HZ $75.- (Stewmac, blade pp)
- Shadow 62 = $78.75
- Fender original 62 $59.90
- Bartolini P8S 125 = $158.75

Prices new on the web. The advantage of a cheap pickup is of course the price. The disadvantage is that they don't sell well second hand.

The best temporary solution is of course a second hand pickup. (Measure the resistance before you pay!) You can use it until you find an old original Ibanez pickup (they sound well too), and sell it at the same price you bought it for.

A vintage style wiring set for a Fender Precision Bass (same specs) is $15.99 in this Ebay-store:
http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-STYLE-WIRING-KIT-FOR-FENDER-PRECISION-P-BASS_W0QQite mZ250026100084QQihZ015QQcategoryZ64401QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

One second hand vintage bass tuner (take a clover model if you can't find the heart shaped model). Make sure that you can use the same screw holes. (SO NOT THE HIPSHOT MODEL).

One set of bass strings, Warwick Red Labels are cheap, stainless steel and sound good (about 15 or $19).

As I calculate it, you'll have this thing playing well for about $85-105.

To clean the bridge, you'll have to take it off.
For this and all hardware (tuners) I would use a product called DUC. It's made of plant juices. You apply it with a wet dish sponge using the brush side and perhaps a tooth brush. After a few minutes you rinse it with water and dry it directly after that.
This product is typical for the Benelux. I don't know if it's available elsewhere.

Then oil the rotating parts it with sewing machine oil: srews, worm wheels etc.

Then put everything back in place.

I would use an original Fender Pickup PB 62 pickup. It will sound vintage, and you can always sell them at a good price after you found a Blazer or Roadstar bass pickup.


Don't destroy the original finish and don't drill! The value will decrease!

Ginger
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Henryrayker
Username: Henryrayker

Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Friday, September 22, 2006 - 5:28 pm:   

Well, about the refinish, I meant have it restored, because the finish is in terrible shape. The pictures made it look about 100x better than it really is. I'll try to get a closeup of the pen scribble that's on the front of the body and see if it will show up. I will probably end up keeping it, though, and I like when my guitars have a little character.

As far as the pickup is concerned, I -believe- it is still functional. The pickup is also not shaped like the P4 pickup (it's a solid bar, as opposed to a split).

The bridge is actually in really bad shape. It was plated, and most of that plating is now completely gone.

I didn't plan on drilling or doing anything to the finish until I heard it. As it stands, I actually like the finish (even though it's pretty bad) and I don't want any tuners that don't have an exact match on the screw holes.
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Beaker61
Username: Beaker61

Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Friday, September 22, 2006 - 5:57 pm:   

The fact that the plating has mostly worn off should not matter too much as the saddles and bridge plate are solid brass. If any of the screws are seized, take off the bridge plate if possible and soak it in WD40 for a while. The problem with old guitars is that the saddle screws are often completely knackered, but replacing them is not a problem, unless you are anally obsessive about maintaining it's vintage integrity. I have boxes full of manky old screws and springs etc. that have come off customers guitars, to make way for new ones that actually work. If you need a couple of replacements give me a shout.
The pickups on these are fairly unique - the nearest equivalents I can think of are the double poled pickups on some of the Guild B300 series basses that were made around the same time.
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Henryrayker
Username: Henryrayker

Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Friday, September 22, 2006 - 6:24 pm:   

The screws are actually in great shape. The springs, also, are nice and strong. The screws are actually in such good shape that I could turn them with my fingers, if I held the saddles and tried hard enough.

My course of action, right now, is to replace the pots and jack. Get it wired up to see how that pickup actually sounds. If it sounds good, I'm going to look into replacing the tuning keys. If it doesn't, I'll just wait around until I can find another pickup that will fit.

I'm still really hoping for an original tuner to pop up.
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Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Friday, September 22, 2006 - 7:29 pm:   

And I was totally out of line with the PB pickups. I was just projecting the image of my Roadstar II pickup configuration on your Blazer without even looking at your pictures!
Shame on me!

It is even possible that your pickup still works!
That would make the restauration even much cheaper!

Did you measure the resistance already?
Put your multimeter on 20 KOhm and measure it!
If the resistance is endless, you might have a broken coil.
If it's zero, you have a short circuit.
I guess it will be between 1-20 KOhm, but there are MAXON pickups that have a much higher restance. 225 KOhm on a humbucker for instance is possible. If you have only one pickup, that's no problem. If you combine it with a normal let's say Fender single coil, it's difficult to get a good sound balance.
So it might be necessary to measure within a higher range than 0-20K.

If it's still good, your technical restauration will cost about $45 (wiring set $16 + Warwick Red Labels $19 + 1 tuner $10) assuming you have WD40 at home.

If the pen scribble is ballpoint, you can remove it with methanol (methylated spirits).

Gibson sells antique natural lacquer touch-up pens, I found on the bay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/GENUINE-GIBSON-ANTIQUE-NATURAL-LACQUER-TOUCH-UP-PEN_W0QQitem Z250031938954QQihZ015QQcategoryZ7266QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

meant for restorations of small spots without sanding the guitar. It should give an aged look.

I must say, I never tried it.


Ginger
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Henryrayker
Username: Henryrayker

Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Friday, September 22, 2006 - 11:46 pm:   

The problem with the pen is that it's a combination of someone scratching really hard with the pen, as well as the ink. It's in there for good, I'm afraid. The guy who had this before me REALLY didn't take care of it.

I tested the pickup and got a reading of 18.75kOhm, so I'm in business there.

I found a place that has heart shaped tuners, but I believe they're for upright basses. I sent an email about the dimensions of the tuners and whatnot, and, at very least, I may be able to transfer the key from one of these onto a replacement clover-leaf tuner.

I'm not having a decent time finding a secondhand tuner. If you wouldn't mind, and have the time, could you point me in the right direction, Ginger? You seem to be great at finding this kind of stuff.
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Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Saturday, September 23, 2006 - 6:13 am:   

Wow, 18,5 kOhm, that's a powerful pickup! Many windings! Excellent!

Transfering the complete key to a clover-leaf tuner works only if the worm wheels are exactly the same. Best is to tranfer both, gear and worm wheel together, if possible. This works only if the gear fits on the spindle. You need a bit of luck there. Tranfering only the wing will give buzz problems.

Pointing the right direction, huh?
Your tuners were officially called Hercules tuners.
Of course the best searching instrument is Google. As a linguist I know what words NOT to use, because of to high frequencies. I'm an pretty early user of Google (since 1997).
Then of course there are auction sites like Ebay, and there are overall auction viewers. On these auction viewers you get results on 5 or 6 auction sites including Ebay. But then you miss all the items with typos.
Good contacts with luthiers and music stores are important. Ferret around in their part bins.

If you don't buy the pots etc as a set, buy CTS pots and a Switchcraft jack input. The 0.1F capacitor you can buy from Fender or Orange drop (2x as expensive).
I forgot: the knobs look a lot like chrome telecaster domes (see John's picture). You need them too. Will cost about 6 dollars I guess.
You can buy them with allen screws or grooves.


So off to the luthiers/music stores, you've just saved about $60.- on the pickup!

Ginger
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Beaker61
Username: Beaker61

Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Saturday, September 23, 2006 - 6:15 am:   

The lacquer sticks should work fine. I have used them many times and if done with care and patience, leave an almost totally invisible repair, as the new lacquer melts into the existing lacquer. A friend of mine took an enormous chunk out of the lacquer on his Patrick Eggle Berlin Pro when he dropped it. The lacquer on those is about 6mm thick - just about the thickest I have come across. After a couple hours of stick filling, sanding and polishing,you honestly could not see the join.
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Bassassin
Username: Bassassin

Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Monday, September 25, 2006 - 5:01 pm:   

This model of Blazer has actually turned up a few times quite recently on UK Ebay - as has one of the Cimar-branded versions. The headstock shape's quite interesting - it's near identical to this:

headcomp.jpg

This is from my 1980 (approx) CSL Jazz bass - built at Fuji Gen. I've also seen an early Blazer guitar with a similar-shaped headstock.

I wonder if it's a transitional design from the Fender-shape, which somehow found its way onto some original designs. I've also seen Fuji Gen Cimar Jazz copies with the more common Blazer headstock shape.

Jon.
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Henryrayker
Username: Henryrayker

Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Monday, September 25, 2006 - 5:48 pm:   

what is it with basses from this time period missing just one of their tuners?

Oh yeah, I went to some guitar shops and the like (we even have a nice little old bass shop tucked back off behind a modern music shop) and had no luck finding the particular tuner. I brought one in for reference and a couple of the people (who actually knew what I was talking about) just laughed in my face. =\
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Beaker61
Username: Beaker61

Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Monday, September 25, 2006 - 6:33 pm:   

Henryrayker - I've ploughed through all my catalogues and specs for bass machine heads, and I can tell you that the following brands DON'T fit as the mounting plate screws are in the wrong place:
Fender, Shaller (original large plate or BML's), Gotoh, Mighty Mite, Grover, Hipshot, Wilkinson or Sperzel. That's pretty much all of them then!!
They also have 12mm shafts, where almost everything else has 14mm shafts.
I've also been through all of my boxes of bits and not found one close.
Are you sure your pickup measures 18.75 ohm as mine reads 8.77 and sounds HUGE!!
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Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Monday, September 25, 2006 - 10:32 pm:   

Bassassin,
The headstock of the CSL shows us 3 clover leaf shaped machine heads, that look a lot like tuners of my old Hondo II Jazz Bass. Could you show us the back of the headstock?

Henry,
Do these people, who laughed in your face actually believe they will sell ever you an instrument? Or even a set of strings?

I guess they hope to get you so sick of it that you trade it in on a new instrument. (So that they can fix it and make double profit). But I would never buy even one string from people who treated me that way.

It looks like you need a lot of patience to find the right part. But I read, Harry is going to the Vintage Guitar Event in Veenendaal on September 30th, perhaps he can look for it. You could send him a e-mail.


Ginger
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Henryrayker
Username: Henryrayker

Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Tuesday, September 26, 2006 - 11:56 am:   

Yeah, I re-measured, because I still can't believe it myself. It reads 18.4-18.6 kOhm. I REALLY can't wait to hear it.

Yeah, as far as being laughed at, I just walked out and don't plan on returning to those shops ever again. I'll take my business elsewhere.

As far as the tuning machine goes, if I can find the right diameter post, but the wrong mounting screws, I might actually just measure it up and make some new screw-holes in the mounting plate. Would that cause any problems, do you think?
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Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Tuesday, September 26, 2006 - 5:31 pm:   

Your bass PU stands to Beaker61's bass PU as
a Tony Iommi stands to a Classic 57,
which means POWER!

Your solution leaves the wood intact. That's good, but...
would drilling in the metal mounting plate of a machine head cause troubles?
- that depends on how much room you have left on that mounting plate. Can't say, since you have the parts.
But I can say what you need to drill in metal:
- Use a HSS drill and cooling oil.

- Use an original mounting plate as a template.

If this succeeds, you have at least a working temporary setup to check your sound + undamaged wood.

You could also make a temporary setup with 3 strings: E-A-D and have some patience.


Ginger
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Bassassin
Username: Bassassin

Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Tuesday, September 26, 2006 - 8:48 pm:   

"Bassassin,
The headstock of the CSL shows us 3 clover leaf shaped machine heads, that look a lot like tuners of my old Hondo II Jazz Bass. Could you show us the back of the headstock?"


I can do better than that - this is the tuner that's been removed from the H/S in the previous pic:

tuner

I'm betting it's nothing like the ones on your Hondo, Ginger, or the heart-shaped Blazer ones. This is interesting because it has a cast body and a threaded collar which screws into the body and provides tension adjustment. I've seen these on a few early 80s basses, and also with cast buttons instead of the cloverleaf, on older Yamahas.

I post on a UK bassists' forum, www.bassworld.co.uk - and there's a lot of interest in this model of Blazer there. Several members own them, or have done in the past - and they're particularly notorious (and desirable) for the high-output pickup.

Jon.
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Henryrayker
Username: Henryrayker

Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 1:23 am:   

ooh! as soon as my confirmation for the account comes in, I'll try hounding those forums, as well, for a tuning machine.
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Bassassin
Username: Bassassin

Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 6:12 am:   

Henryraker - good idea - you'll find an Ibanez Blazer thread if you search the Bass Guitars forum, and there's also a separate board for items wanted.

Good idea to introduce yourself first in the new members section before you post on the other boards. See you over there!


J.
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Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 10:08 am:   

You won your bet, Bassassin. The machine heads of my (Natural Ash) Hondo II bass have a much larger rectangle base plate with four screw holes.
They provide a lot of material to drill new holes in.
But I still know nothing about the base plate of the machine heads of Henry's Blazer.

We'll wait for the results of his efforts on the UK bassists forum. This is going to be a powerful bass when it's ready!


Ginger
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Beaker61
Username: Beaker61

Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 6:10 pm:   

Ginger, I bet you that your machine head mounting plate is the same as mine and Henry's. Fenders, Schallers et al have tapered plates, with the bottom pair of holes closer together than the top pair.
What makes these Hercules tuners unique is that the plate is (almost) rectangular, with the top and bottom set of holes the same distance apart.
For this reason, Henry's idea of drilling new holes into the plate is not really viable. The only plate big enough to take the spacing (22.5mm side to side, and 36.0mm top to bottom), is the Fender BMFL large plate, also found on the Wilkinson versions. The problem is the plate will overhang the side of the headstock. AND the post is 14mm not 12mm.
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Henryrayker
Username: Henryrayker

Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 6:36 pm:   

Boy, it sure takes a while to get a confirmation over there, huh? =\
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Henryrayker
Username: Henryrayker

Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 6:41 pm:   

Oh, and I measured my plates and the holes are actually 22mm apart on the top, 24mm on the bottom and 36mm on the sides. The posts are 12mm. I measured again after looking at yours, but my measurements are correct.
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Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 10:25 pm:   

Another bet!
What is this?
A Day at the Races?
Fat Bottomed Girls?

Allright then, but this time I win.
I've looked at the base plate of the Hercules heart shaped machine heads. It doesn't look like mine at all. The Hercules clover leaf shaped machine heads are exactly like the Fender MBFL tuners:
http://www.noahjames.com/vintagepage/parts.html
but: my plates are bigger and RECTANGULAR (room enough to drill), but I have no name of them.

But your hint BMFL brought me to a website where they sell Schaller reproductions of several vintage machine heads. And what I saw is that the mounting plate of the BMLC is very much like the mounting plate of the heart shaped Hercules.
They are 44.- per set:

http://www.thomann.de/de/4l-mechaniken_fuer_e-bass.html

No drilling necessary if you're lucky, Henry.
I have no dimensions of these parts, but optically they look very much the same, but with clover shaped wings.
You could contact them for exact dimensions.

Ginger
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Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 10:58 pm:   

Henry,

I just found some original tuners for you:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Ibanez-vintage-custom-bass-guitar-natural-wood-body_W0QQitem Z200030912066QQihZ010QQcategoryZ38080QQtcZphotoQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
and some spare parts

Ginger
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Johns
Username: Johns

Registered: 02-2001
Posted on Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 11:27 pm:   

Please use this ICW-friendly eBay link to place bids on the Blazer bass:

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-1751-2978-71/1?AID=5463217&PID=1802666&mpre=ht tp%3A//cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll%3FViewItem%26item%3D200030912066
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Henryrayker
Username: Henryrayker

Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 11:33 pm:   

My german isn't so good anymore (I only took two years, but I remember next to nothing. I'm going to hope they can answer some questions in English).

As for the auction, I'm going to see how it goes. Spending $55 for shipping alone, as well as getting yet another bass I'll want to fix up (my reason for wanting to fix the first one is due to the fact that it's older than I am) and I'll end up in the same state I'm in now, but a couple hundred in the hole.

Maybe someone else here will buy it and sell me a tuner? :laugh:
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Beaker61
Username: Beaker61

Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 3:49 am:   

Henry, the whole Thomann site is also in English as well as almost evey other European language. Just go to www.thomann.de and click on the flag. They are superb to deal with, outrageously cheap and I have bought loads of stuff from them before, as have several of my musician and PA owning friends.
The problem with these is that they will overhang the side of your headstock, as I have said before, and they have 14mm shafts. I know, because I have a set spare here myself and I have tried them for size. I also have a spare set of Wilkinsons, that are identical, but half the price.
If you know anyone that works in an engineering machine shop they could always mill them to size for you though.
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Beaker61
Username: Beaker61

Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 3:58 am:   

Whoa! just seen this - this guy might be open to a deal on the tuners, seing as they will not properly fit the replacement neck.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Ibanez-Roadstar-Bass-Project-MIJ_W0QQitemZ2800311702 99QQihZ018QQcategoryZ38080Q
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Beaker61
Username: Beaker61

Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 4:02 am:   

Oh dear it's too early in the morning. check out the next thread from Mr. Blanche (Roadstar bass) - he beat me to it.
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Bassassin
Username: Bassassin

Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 4:26 am:   

A bit OT but in case anyone's interested - a guy on Bassworld is selling one of these right now:

http://www.bassworld.co.uk/pn/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=17675

Looking for 180 & 20 postage - that'll be to the UK, of course.


J.
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Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 7:26 am:   

Beaker61 meant this:
Author Message


Mrblanche
Username: Mrblanche

Registered: 01-2006
Posted on Wednesday, September 27, 2006 - 10:54 pm:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's your heart-shaped tuners...still on the neck!

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-1751-2978-71/1?AID=5463217&PID=1802666&mpre=ht tp%3A//cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll%3FViewItem%26item%3D280031170299

Go for these tuners, they don't even belong on a 84 Roadstar! Use Q&A

Ginger
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Pitviper
Username: Pitviper

Registered: 08-2005
Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 7:34 am:   

Nice looking bass...Looks just like the early stepchild to my BL700NT..they look the same except for the headstock and pickup.

You can pick up one of those for $150 and usually less if you look on ebay (as noted and linked above) from time to time and snag the tuners and electronics, I'm sure you can retro-fit them and make 'em work just fine and part the rest out (now you can help the guys who just need a bridge, tuner(s) neck, etc...etc...and probably make close to your investment back. Careful about spending too much on it. Buying separates is not cost effective and the end value, imho won't justify it on this.

In contrast to others comments, again imho, refinishing it won't harm it's value much if at all...$125-$175 at most is the upper end for most all of the Ibanez basses in this category. So if you want to refinish it, you won't lose much if anything. Only a diehard collector would degrade the value due to a refinish.

I refinished mine and it looks brand new...paid chump change for it, and it's worth more as it sits to the avg guy than it was all scratched up.

Imho, a good refinish will bring out the natural beauty like nothing else...it may be vintage, but in reality, it's not going to be worth that much anyway. Correct me if I'm wrong guys, and I'm not degrading this in the slightest as I love the sound and value of these models, but they are not knocking down the doors for these basses.

Now if it was a vintage upper end Ibanez bass, ie...Musician, Artist, Roadster or the sort....then I would pause.
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Henryrayker
Username: Henryrayker

Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 8:59 am:   

Gemberbier, your link seems to be broken!
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Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 4:35 pm:   

Yes, I see there's a space too much in ht tp.
I don't understand why. I used copy + paste.
Next try:
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-1751-2978-71/1?AID=5463217&PID=1802666&mpre=ht tp%3A//cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll%3FViewItem%26item%3D280031170299
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Beaker61
Username: Beaker61

Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 8:32 pm:   

Pitviper talks a lot of sense. As a guitar repairer it makes me laugh when I get guys with five year old Mexican Fenders, agonising over whether to let me replace a broken jack socket for fear of damaging it's vintage integrity ( and I'm not kidding here). I'm not a wealthy guy, and a working musician. All my guitars are of a cheap and cheerful nature, carefully chosen for what they are and what they do, rather than what they may be worth in the future. They are treated well but worked very hard. I don't hesitate for a second in replacing ANY component that isn't working right. I have already replaced the saddle screws on the Blazer I have just bought, and fitted a new bone nut. I have just gigged with it for the first time tonight,and I am already concerned with it's tuning stability. (I can't fault either the sound, or the playability though.) If the tuners are at fault they WILL be replaced with Schallers - and it won't bother me at all to have to drill out the headstock to take them. It is after all JUST a tool. If a guitar is only worth a couple of hundred quid after nearly thirty years, then it's a pretty safe bet that it'll never be worth enough to have regrets about modifying it. I am sure either myself or my son will still be hammering it rotten in another ten years time at least.
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Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 9:43 pm:   

I think I'm also pretty pragmatic about the controls and the jack socket, but that's all under the pickguard.
I don't agree on refinishing an aged natural finish. I would use the Gibson touch-up pen.
And of course tuners should work and be stable.
What's so special about this bass, is the enormously powerful passive pickup in a simple beautifully aged bass.
Everybody will underestimate this simple old bass, until you plug it in your very affordable Soundwave 65 and blow them away. That's fun!



Ginger
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Henryrayker
Username: Henryrayker

Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Thursday, September 28, 2006 - 11:12 pm:   

Beaker61, if you change the tuners, might I have a go at them? I've got a way with mechanics.
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Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Friday, September 29, 2006 - 6:10 am:   

Henry, here's a link to the 1980 German catalogue John referred to:
http://www.t3-kundenserver.de/htmlpages/redasys/_core/databases/t_meinl-uploads/ 1980_stepahead_meinl.pdf

Your bass is somewhat a transition model between the 1980 Cimar Stinger 2099NT and the 1981/82 Ibanez Blazer BL700NT. Pictured in this 1982 catalogue:
http://www.t3-kundenserver.de/htmlpages/redasys/_core/databases/t_meinl-uploads/ 1982_bass.pdf

The machine heads are beautifuly pictured in the 1980 catalogue with PART NR: 1352-4N and called Hercules B in the 1979 catalogue:
http://www.t3-kundenserver.de/htmlpages/redasys/_core/databases/t_meinl-uploads/ 1979_basses.pdf


The more pictures I see, the more convinced I get: basses should be basic!

Ginger
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Beaker61
Username: Beaker61

Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Friday, September 29, 2006 - 8:54 am:   

Henry, give me a couple of weeks to see if I can get along with them or not, and if not I will give you first dibs on them.

I also agree with Ginger about re-finishes. I like them a bit beat up - if I want a bass that looks like new, I'll buy a new one! I will be lacquer filling a few chips in the neck on this one though, but I won't touch the body - none of the damage is serious enough to need it.

Mark.
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Henryrayker
Username: Henryrayker

Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Saturday, September 30, 2006 - 12:51 pm:   

Update:

Okay, I just got the parts in the mail, and boy was I excited. I ripped open the package, doodled down the schematic (I'm an electrical engineer, I don't need the original) and went to town. First, the pots didn't fit the pickguard perfectly (the pots were a little too big) but I just shaved off the pickguard enough to get the pots to fit (I discovered a small crack in the pickguard anyway).

After about 10 minutes of electrical work, I put on some REALLY old strings (they were actually the strings that were on the bass for about 15 years, apparently). I wasn't expecting much...I mean, really old strings, my amp isn't very good, and, so far, the thing has cost me $21 and some time. I plugged it in and was blown away. I have an Ibanez Soundgear something or other that I bought 7 years ago (man, it's been that long...) and I just wasn't too thrilled with the way it sounded, and got turned off of bass guitar. I started playing drums and guitar more. This guitar sounds amazing. The pickup is incredibly powerful. The tone knob doesn't have as wide of an affect as my other bass' knob does, but it doesn't matter. This is the sound I have been looking for. I've played P and J basses (from current to about 20 years old) and nothing sounds like this.

This only strengthened my resolve. I must find that tuner.
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Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier

Registered: 05-2006
Posted on Saturday, September 30, 2006 - 11:08 pm:   

I told you so!


Ginger
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Henryrayker
Username: Henryrayker

Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Sunday, October 01, 2006 - 1:33 am:   

Oh, and also, I contacted the guy who won that auction (the Roadstar bass with the fender replacement neck) and he is willing to possibly sell the tuners to me. I really hope he doesn't want something ridiculous...he bought the whole thing for 125 or something like that..

I'm so giddy.
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Ibnzplyr
Username: Ibnzplyr

Registered: 03-2004
Posted on Sunday, October 01, 2006 - 4:00 am:   

I know what you mean. I had the same reaction. I couldn't believe my ears when I plugged mine in for the first time, and that was into just a guitar amp. I heard the early U2 sound which I always dreamed of getting.

I had a much more expensive SR series Ibanez bass I bought ten years ago with active electronics which is not even the shadow of this bass. I gave that bass away.

Scott
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Muggybonehead
Username: Muggybonehead

Registered: 11-2006
Posted on Wednesday, November 22, 2006 - 1:55 pm:   

Hi everyone. I have had a 1980 (Serial number D804605) blazer bass for about 9 years now which i bought for 50pence, the state of it would make you weep, it was missing all but neck body and bridge and had been painted many many colours, i didnt realise what I had at the time so stripped all the paint back to wood (Wish i'd left it that way) then hand painted it white, it was only when i went to buy new parts that i was told what I had. Ive been scouring free-ads papers for years and more recently ebay but have never come across anything for it; after years of havin it sitting around waiting for a rebirth ive realised the parts are just too rare so i currently have it for sale on Ebay:

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-1751-2978-71/1?AID=5463217&PID=1802666&mpre=ht tp%3A//cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll%3FViewItem%26item%3D300049109495

But seeing the pics in this post of how my bass should look, and hearing about how it should sound really makes me want to have another go at it. I think i can understand why it was stripped of its pickup but its a real shame the tuners had gone too. Thanks to you all for some very useful info.
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Gemberbier
Username: Gemberbier

Registered: 5-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 13, 2007 - 5:18 am:   

Henry, here's a 2+2 set of Hercules "heart" machine heads for $25.-
Get them, man!


Ebay Item #300090366581


Ginger
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Celticguitar666
Username: Celticguitar666

Registered: 5-2007
Posted on Monday, May 07, 2007 - 8:23 am:   

I picked up a Blazer Bass a couple of years ago. An early model single pick up Blonde on blonde. In fine patina used but not abused> Nice fat sound everyone who comes to the studio loves to play it. It lays down nice Bass tracks. Where did I get it ...Neighbors trash can sans strings! I cleaned it up put a nice set of strings and Viola! You never know what you'll find in the trash. Good luck getting it up and playing I think you'll like it.
Dewey
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Ibanezfreak1960
Username: Ibanezfreak1960

Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2007 - 7:21 am:   

Celtic welcome and I too have a few trash goodies.

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